Range

[Ioannes]

A couple more range-related question that I just thought of.

Say we've got two swordsmen just entering a fight. They're at onset range with each other. Exactly how far apart are they, actually? Say you're using a 5' square grid (my group likes to use miniatures).

Are the regular OGL/SRD rules for AoO still effective as far as leaving a threatened square? In Codex-speak, does leaving onset range to "run away" provoke a potential AoO?

If so, I was thinking the Spring Attack feat would still be useful as far as avoiding the AoO, and perhaps you could even strengthen it by saying you don't need to spend MP dice to enter/exit onset range.

G. doesn't like minis or grids, but I do. When I ran tests, I assumed that 'melee' and 'onset' when not using reach weapons were finer gradiations in range between two people in adjacent 5' squares. The nuances of melee range are finer than a 5' grid can give you.

[Galloglaich]

What he said. Also exiting combat doesn't provoke an AoO but somebody moving by your square would.

G.

[Daeruin]

I'm adding to this old post since the question is related.

We start at onset range. I make one attack. If I then make a second attack I'm automatically moved into melee range first, correct? Does that mean that technically my second attack could be an attempt to enter grapple range?

[Galloglaich]

I'm adding to this old post since the question is related.

We start at onset range. I make one attack. If I then make a second attack I'm automatically moved into melee range first, correct? Does that mean that technically my second attack could be an attempt to enter grapple range?

Yes.

G.

[drkguy3107]

Quick question, I have been thoroughly reworking my game system (I did away with the martial feat and feat distinction, just made them into combat feats, and then made non-combat feats into another category), and I came across a question. How do you enter grapple range? Is it just make an attack, which if it hits you enter into grapple range? Or can you just run in?

[Daeruin]

You have to declare an attack, then your opponent gets a chance to make an AoO unless you have something to avoid it. If you survive the AoO AND your attack hits, you are then in grapple range. I don't think this is part of the rules, but I would say that if you want to just get into grapple range and sit there without attacking, you would still have to spend 1 MP and survive the AoO.

[drkguy3107]

Hmm, I wanted galloglaich to chime in, but that is how I have done it myself. Yet some mf's make it sound like you can run in (though that also provokes AoO.)

[Galloglaich]

You have to declare an attack, then your opponent gets a chance to make an AoO unless you have something to avoid it. If you survive the AoO AND your attack hits, you are then in grapple range. I don't think this is part of the rules, but I would say that if you want to just get into grapple range and sit there without attacking, you would still have to spend 1 MP and survive the AoO.

It's what he says, with one caveat: If the other guy has no MP to make the AoO, you can just 'walk in' and do whatever you like, make your attack or touch them or whatever. This is why it can be very risky to run out of MP when a potential enemy still has MP to close the range - if they are in melee that is just 1 mp, if at onset it's 2. So in my campaigns the players often use an MP to reset their range (back away a bit more) at the end of the round.

G

[drkguy3107]

So at onset it would take 2 dice because you would need to move into melee range, and 1 to attack. At melee it would take one because you could just attack, correct?

Also the attack can be made with any weapon usable in a grapple and still deals damage right?

[Galloglaich]

Yes and ... I don't think (not certain right now, I'm at work and can't check easily) that you have to do damage, you can just sieze them (i.e. start a grapple), grab their weapon, grab their hand, etc.

G