Page 1 of 2

Range

PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 10:45 pm
by Daeruin
I want to make sure I understand the rules for the different ranges.

Here's my understanding: If I make only a single attack in a round, and my enemy makes only a single attack in a round, we are still considered to be in onset range. I could also stay in onset range by making two attacks with two dice each. So could my opponent. So we could potentially make four attacks between the two of us and still maintain onset range. If any counterattacks take place, or if one of us attacks a second time with only one die, we enter melee range automatically. Entering melee range this way doesn't "cost" anything other than making the attack. Does that all sound right so far?

Questions:

I could make a one-die attack, which puts me in melee range, then pay another die to go back to onset if I wished. Would this provoke an AoO?

The books says the first attack in a fight is almost always in the onset range. So are there exceptions to this rule?

Is there any way to enter melee range without making an attack? Say by paying one MP die. If I did that, would I provoke an AoO?

Can I enter grapple range straight from onset range? Or do I have to enter melee range first?

Re: Range

PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 11:48 pm
by Galloglaich
Daeruin wrote:I want to make sure I understand the rules for the different ranges.

Here's my understanding: If I make only a single attack in a round, and my enemy makes only a single attack in a round, we are still considered to be in onset range. I could also stay in onset range by making two attacks with two dice each. So could my opponent. So we could potentially make four attacks between the two of us and still maintain onset range. If any counterattacks take place, or if one of us attacks a second time with only one die, we enter melee range automatically. Entering melee range this way doesn't "cost" anything other than making the attack. Does that all sound right so far?


Yep

Questions:

I could make a one-die attack, which puts me in melee range, then pay another die to go back to onset if I wished. Would this provoke an AoO?


Yes, and no it would not.

The books says the first attack in a fight is almost always in the onset range. So are there exceptions to this rule?

yes it can be circumstantial, for example, you are in a small room and somebody comes in through a doorway, you are already at melee range.

Is there any way to enter melee range without making an attack? Say by paying one MP die. If I did that, would I provoke an AoO?

Yes you can enter melee range by spending an MP, and no you would not provoke an AoO.

Can I enter grapple range straight from onset range? Or do I have to enter melee range first?


You have to go 'through' melee range, and entering grapple range does provoke an AoO. Grapple is the only threshold which does provoke AoO.

G.

Re: Range

PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 6:36 am
by Daeruin
Cool. So, say I have a dagger and my enemy has a spear. We start in onset range, and I manage to have initiative. I don't want to make a regular onset attack because my weapon's reach bonus sucks and his is awesome. So I can pay one die to get to Melee Range, then attack to enter Grapple Range. If I avoid/survive the AoO and make a hit, I am now in Grapple Range, and my enemy can't use his spear anymore unless he half-staffs. I can then use my remaining two dice to stab him to death (hopefully).

I also wanted to clarify that I have to successfully hit the guy to enter Grapple Range. If I roll low and miss, I remain in Melee Range. I could then try to attack again or give up and keep some dice for Active Defense.

Edit: Removed two questions to put in a separate post.

Re: Range

PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 2:35 pm
by Galloglaich
To get to grapple range you either have to hit with your short weapon or touch them with your hand, which can be a grapple attack, or an unarmed strike.

G.

Re: Range

PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 5:43 pm
by drkguy3107
sticky this.

Re: Range

PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 5:53 pm
by Galloglaich
Done.

At some point a lot of these type of posts have to be aggregated into a real FAQ. Who wants to do it :)?

G.

Re: Range

PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 8:08 pm
by zarlor
Galloglaich wrote:Done.

At some point a lot of these type of posts have to be aggregated into a real FAQ. Who wants to do it :)?

G.


I volunteer you! :twisted:

Re: Range

PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 7:18 am
by Daeruin
Galloglaich wrote:To get to grapple range you either have to hit with your short weapon or touch them with your hand, which can be a grapple attack, or an unarmed strike.

Just to clarify this, I can't enter grapple range by attacking with medium or longer weapon, but I can enter grapple range while holding one. I just have to do it by making an unarmed or grapple attack.

Re: Range

PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 4:19 pm
by Galloglaich
Yes... and in fact you can make an attack with these weapons if you have certain feats, you can make a pommel strike for example (I don't remember off hand what the restriction is to doing a pommel strike) but you can also just touch them with your off-hand.

This is how you do it in real life, most disarms etc. start with a bind, you maintain contact as you move closer, then you let go with your off-hand and seize their pommel or push their elbow or whatever.

Same for a bind-and-bash (the punch would be sufficient to enter grapple)

G.

Re: Range

PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 7:19 am
by Daeruin
A couple more range-related question that I just thought of.

Say we've got two swordsmen just entering a fight. They're at onset range with each other. Exactly how far apart are they, actually? Say you're using a 5' square grid (my group likes to use miniatures).

Are the regular OGL/SRD rules for AoO still effective as far as leaving a threatened square? In Codex-speak, does leaving onset range to "run away" provoke a potential AoO?

If so, I was thinking the Spring Attack feat would still be useful as far as avoiding the AoO, and perhaps you could even strengthen it by saying you don't need to spend MP dice to enter/exit onset range.