Mounted Combat questions

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Mounted Combat questions

Postby drkguy3107 » Thu Apr 07, 2011 8:06 pm

My only problem with the rules is that there is a glaring difficulty when dealing with mounted combat. It has to do with the round system, if someone charges at you but then runs out of movement, on player 2's turn they can shoot at you and it is as if you are standing completely still rather than moving. How do you run mounted battles, it seems like we are pretending that they are stopping every 6 second and allowing others to charge them.
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Re: Mounted Combat questions

Postby Galloglaich » Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:31 pm

Ok so to be honest, I haven't really thoroughly absorbed the rules in 3.5 for mounted combat, so my response is with the caveat that this isn't "official" Codex policy or anything, before I release any official rules on this I'll have to carefully go through the existing rules and decide what to change and what to add.

So that said, if someone on horseback moves in a round, and has not explicitly stopped, I assume they are still moving at their normal move rate. In the case of someone being shot at, the assumption is that they are still moving and appropriate To Hit penalties apply, thoug no active defense unless they saved some MP.

If someone else also mounted wants to catch them, they'll have to cover the distance first, then pass a contested skill check* (ride skill) to catch up to them to melee range, otherwise they are assumed to be just outside of melee range.

I'll also require someone to move at least the same number of times (using the same number of MP) as the person they are trying to catch, so for example if you moved 3 times and ended up 40 feet away from me, I'll still have to move 3 times and end up near you to try to catch you (get into melee range) because it's assumed some of the movement is simultaneous.

That is the way I basically wing it, it's pretty abstract but it 'felt right' to me so far in our Beta campaign. You could come up with much more sophisticated and realistic mounted combat rules but it would have to be done carefully to keep it fast paced.

I do also allow people with the rideby attack skill to move (charge), attack, and move again ... I don't require the charge be in a straight line though I think that is kind of stupid.

G.

* this assumes they are on a mount with the same speed. If they are on a faster mount, they get a free dice on this skill check for every 5' of speed that they are faster.
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Re: Mounted Combat questions

Postby drkguy3107 » Tue Apr 26, 2011 3:02 pm

*By being outside of melee range you mean outside of onset right?
*Also, lets say you manage to get within onset, does attacking more than once still move you into melee?
*What if you just want to move through onset does that provoke AoO? *What if they have tactical movement can they just pull their horse away like they could on foot?

*What is the TH penalties for hitting a moving target?
*Is there a penalty for trying to attack at speed, I remember in SRD if you moved more than twice your speed you got a TH penalty.

*I also want to add some kinda special rule, because I feel like if we are a foot ball field away, 100 yards, and the opponent charges me (lance and everything, joust) on their turn, I should be allowed to moves, seems like a long time to allow them to charge at me while I sit like a duck.

*Additionally, if I catch up to an opponent as you discussed below, and I succeed at the contested ride check to close with them, on their turn can they just pull away and force me to do it all over again.

*And finally, could you describe what you mean by? "'ll also require someone to move at least the same number of times (using the same number of MP) as the person they are trying to catch, so for example if you moved 3 times and ended up 40 feet away from me, I'll still have to move 3 times and end up near you to try to catch you (get into melee range) because it's assumed some of the movement is simultaneous."

It sounds like if I an opponent is lets say 200 feet back, and I'm not moving on my turn, on their turn they move 300ft, and are now 100ft ahead, I have to also use 5 dice (since they used 5) to catch up with them?

*Oops, one last question, how do horses accelerate? Do they just move like people do, and do you have to spend dice to move every single round or do they just maintain speed once they are up to speed?
If not, does your horse go from full run to dead stop if you don't spend die or is there a deceleration process?

Thanx
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Re: Mounted Combat questions

Postby Galloglaich » Tue Apr 26, 2011 8:32 pm

drkguy3107 wrote:*By being outside of melee range you mean outside of onset right?


Yes

*Also, lets say you manage to get within onset, does attacking more than once still move you into melee?


Yes I think so though that might bear further thought. Typically for example with a saber you only make one cut and then keep going. Those weapons are specialized for this type of attack, whereas strait swords were more for parking your horse next to someone and hacking away in a sustained fight.

There should be some enhanced rule for weapon retention issues probably when fighting on horseback.

*What if you just want to move through onset does that provoke AoO?


I think so.

*What if they have tactical movement can they just pull their horse away like they could on foot?


I think A) it should be a specific riding related skill, there is probably some equestrian term for this kind of thing, if not just make an equestrian versoin of tactical movement, and B) they can move their horse but they don't go backward very easily especially if they are already moving.

*What is the TH penalties for hitting a moving target?

Not sure but I think there is one in SRD. I would probably convfer a Free Dice for defense if the speed difference is above a certain number.

*Is there a penalty for trying to attack at speed, I remember in SRD if you moved more than twice your speed you got a TH penalty.


I think you are right but don't remember off the top of my head.

*I also want to add some kinda special rule, because I feel like if we are a foot ball field away, 100 yards, and the opponent charges me (lance and everything, joust) on their turn, I should be allowed to moves, seems like a long time to allow them to charge at me while I sit like a duck.

I think there are some MF which would allow you to act before they do, but there should prrobably be new ones specifically for horseback

*Additionally, if I catch up to an opponent as you discussed below, and I succeed at the contested ride check to close with them, on their turn can they just pull away and force me to do it all over again.


The way I house ruled it so far, they have to roll another contested skill check to get away, though they can also try different other things like stopping or turning their horse suddenly, jumping off their horse, jumping off their horse and onto your horse, etc.

*And finally, could you describe what you mean by? "'ll also require someone to move at least the same number of times (using the same number of MP) as the person they are trying to catch, so for example if you moved 3 times and ended up 40 feet away from me, I'll still have to move 3 times and end up near you to try to catch you (get into melee range) because it's assumed some of the movement is simultaneous."

It sounds like if I an opponent is lets say 200 feet back, and I'm not moving on my turn, on their turn they move 300ft, and are now 100ft ahead, I have to also use 5 dice (since they used 5) to catch up with them?
yes that is what I meant. But maybe there is a hole in that theory.

*Oops, one last question, how do horses accelerate? Do they just move like people do, and do you have to spend dice to move every single round or do they just maintain speed once they are up to speed?
If not, does your horse go from full run to dead stop if you don't spend die or is there a deceleration process?

Thanx


Good question, I think trained warhorses accelerate pretty fast (ever seen a joust?) but I'm not sure, have to think about it.


G.
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Re: Mounted Combat questions

Postby Galloglaich » Tue Apr 26, 2011 9:11 pm

Maybe the issue with the number of MP expended to 'catch' an opponent would just be a reflection of getting to the same speed. Like as in the acceleration issue you mentioned. If someone moves 5 MP they are going flat out, fast. If you happen to be right by them you may be able to leap out and get them but it will be harder. Hence the penalty against a fast moving target.

I'll have to think about this a bit more...

G.
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Re: Mounted Combat questions

Postby drkguy3107 » Wed Apr 27, 2011 2:47 pm

I think spending the equal amount of dice to get up to speed is good, my problem now is TH penalties for speed and some of the more detailed melee and maneuver options, as well as deceleration. I don't see why you have to spend dice to keep the horse going, but I'm not an equestrian so you should probably just track one down and ask them.
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Re: Mounted Combat questions

Postby Galloglaich » Thu Apr 28, 2011 1:24 am

Yeah that is another good point, once you are up to speed, the horse will just keep running. In swashbuckler and cowboy movies that is when the guy starts doing all kinds of tricks, standing on the saddle etc. Which is exactly the kind of cinematic / realistic behavior I like in games.

Have to think of a way to model that.

I do know some horse guys in the HEMA scene but they are kind of full of themselves... not that easy to get a strait answer out of.

G.
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Re: Mounted Combat questions

Postby drkguy3107 » Thu Apr 28, 2011 5:33 am

I think any equestrian would do, just ask about how much effort on the riders part it takes to maintain speed.
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Re: Mounted Combat questions

Postby drkguy3107 » Fri May 20, 2011 8:34 pm

So there is no TH penalty for firing at a moving target in the SRD, and now that I am working on my mounted combat rules I am having a huge problem with that.
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Re: Mounted Combat questions

Postby Galloglaich » Fri May 20, 2011 11:32 pm

Wow... I had always kind of just assumed that there was, like in every other game system. I totally agree with you ... there has to be a To Hit penalty for movement. The question is how to make it where it's not too cumbersome (i.e. so you don't have to look it up on a chart or something)

In the Codex version of SRD, there are two factors relative to movement, your movement rate, for normal humans that is 30', and the amount of times you move in a round (up to 4 for a medium to high level character). I think in Standard SRD there is a more klunky version of the same thing where you can do a "Run Action".

So I guess, just off the top of my head, how about a penalty based on move rate, -1 for 20-30', -2 for 30'-50', -4 for 60'+.... and then multiply that penalty by the number of times you move in a round (the number of MP you spend on movement). So for a horse traveling at 50' for two MP the To Hit penalty would be -4, if they were moving for all four MP it would be -8. That is probably too much of a penalty. :roll:

Maybe it should just be based on the total number of feet you move in a turn. So how about this, for each full 50' you move in a turn is a -1 To Hit. So if you are a normal human and you use 2 MP for movement that is a -1 To Hit, if you use all four it's still just -2. A horse moving at full gallop (all four MP) would be 200' which is -4. I think that sounds about right... maybe. What do you think?

By the way if you don't mind I'd love to see your other mounted combat rules. Might want to steal some ideas :)

G.
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