Mounted Combat questions

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Re: Mounted Combat questions

Postby drkguy3107 » Sat May 21, 2011 1:35 am

Maybe it should just be based on the total number of feet you move in a turn. So how about this, for each full 50' you move in a turn is a -1 To Hit. So if you are a normal human and you use 2 MP for movement that is a -1 To Hit, if you use all four it's still just -2. A horse moving at full gallop (all four MP) would be 200' which is -4. I think that sounds about right... maybe. What do you think?


I disagree. Imagine a person running flat out firing a bow while running. To me that should be impossible, let alone -2. Even if they only ran 3x, that is still a nice run, not a jog (which would still be extremely difficult).

I think we should modify the other option, instead of the -1 for 20-30, -2 for 30-50, etc. It should just be -2 for each additional die after the first. For example. Lets say your on a horse and you move 60ft (and your horse has a spd of 60 so 1 die) no penalty, you horse is just walking or trotting (my horse knowledge is crap). At 2 die: -2, 3 die: -4, 4 die:-6, 5 die: -8. (remember all horses have the run feet so they can do 5X spd).

I don't think anyone really fights at full speed:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUSVPJ1mnxg

yes I know the video is kinda long, just skip to 0:45. (its very hard to find a horse video without music and a slideshow, lol).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horse_gait

To me running flat out requires a lot of horse and persons effort. So penalizing full speed attacks seems fine to me.

To summarize
walk/trot: no penalty x1
canter: -2 x2
slow gallop: -4 x3
gallop: -6 x4
fast as hell: -8 x5
like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGKYOgaH ... re=related
Last edited by drkguy3107 on Sat May 21, 2011 2:10 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Mounted Combat questions

Postby drkguy3107 » Sat May 21, 2011 1:51 am

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horse_gait
To me most ride by attacks and such should be at x2 or x3, x4 only when trying to catch someone, and x5 only when you have to since it would wear out a horse hella fast. So regular -2/-4 isn't a big deal in my mind, just makes the lance all the more necessary.

So a skilled horse archer (both mounted archery feats) would only have a base TH penalty of -1 (I halve again rather than eliminate penalties for improved mtd arch.) At a charge X3, it would be a cumulative -5 for riding at quickly at an opponent and firing a recurve bow. With a range increment of 30' he can ride quickly ride up to an opponent and deliver a close range shot, so +2 TH and +2 dmg. So the whole penalty would just be -3. At almost full speed the penalty would just be -5.

Also, I allow my players to add their horses str instead of their own to all mounted charging attacks dmg rolls (charging for me is x3 or more).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVY3gdqxvB0
jousting looks like its done at the gallop.

Second question not in the srd, what should be the penalty to hit a moving target?

p.s. the mounted rules will look a lot like what you just told me on this thread, but sure, its looking to be 2 pages, one page of common ride checks.
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Re: Mounted Combat questions

Postby Galloglaich » Sat May 21, 2011 6:28 pm

drkguy3107 wrote:I disagree. Imagine a person running flat out firing a bow while running. To me that should be impossible, let alone -2. Even if they only ran 3x, that is still a nice run, not a jog (which would still be extremely difficult).


We are misunderstanding each other. I was not talking about a penalty for the attacker running while fighting, I was talking about the penalty for shooting at a defender who is moving fast, i.e. it's harder to hit a moving target.

For the attacker, I don't think you actually need any penalty at all, this is already handled by the MP system. If you aren't spending dice on movement, you can attack with more dice. I like that much better than using penalties which means more numbers to look up / keep track of, more arithmetic etc.

Now where I think we have to look more carefully perhaps is on how much MP it takes to maintain a horse at gallop, or in a canter etc. Maybe it takes two MP to keep a horse galloping.

G.
Last edited by Galloglaich on Sat May 21, 2011 6:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mounted Combat questions

Postby Galloglaich » Sat May 21, 2011 6:32 pm

drkguy3107 wrote:Also, I allow my players to add their horses str instead of their own to all mounted charging attacks dmg rolls (charging for me is x3 or more).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVY3gdqxvB0
jousting looks like its done at the gallop.


Did you see my 'Deluxe Warhorse' rules? I add this and some other similar benefits, if using a trained warhorse. This helps put the proper emphasis on the value of a trained warhorse which was extremely expensive and sought-after in period.

Second question not in the srd, what should be the penalty to hit a moving target?


See about two posts back ;)

p.s. the mounted rules will look a lot like what you just told me on this thread, but sure, its looking to be 2 pages, one page of common ride checks.


If we can agree on this, and you can aggregate it together for me, I'll include it in an update for the Codex Core rules and credit you as co-author.

G.
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Re: Mounted Combat questions

Postby drkguy3107 » Sat May 21, 2011 7:12 pm

Yes I did see the deluxe warhorse rules. My modifications to them are that I don't think charging on a warhorse will make the attack roll easier, so I only allow you to add horse strength to damage not attack. Also I don't think rouncys should count as deluxe warhorses.

As far as penalties, I misunderstood what you were saying so I have to go back and look at them, then will edit this post. I still think there should be some penalty for attacking from horse back since you are a moving target and that is more difficult. Think of the difficulty of hitting something while doing a drive by as opposed to just standing still and shooting at it.

However I agree that requiring a certain amount of dice to maintain a gallop would take care of that, I just am not sure how much. Do we want to say that there is just a base amount of dice to maintain speed, or that it depends on how fast your going?

Also this allows for a great MT that gives you a bonus die once per round for maintaining a gallop or making your horse move (pretty much like a mounted mobility)

Only problem there is how quickly does a horse deaccelerate. If it takes a while then you can choose to not maintain and still get all the bonuses without any of the effort. Actually, never mind that. It is a valid tactic that would result in you having to spend a lot of dice next round in order to get it going again.
Last edited by drkguy3107 on Sun May 22, 2011 3:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mounted Combat questions

Postby drkguy3107 » Sat May 21, 2011 7:26 pm

The maximum rank in a class skill is the character’s level + 3. If it’s a cross-class skill, the maximum rank is half of that number (do not round up or down).
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/skillsSummary.htm

Also I think your skill limits are too low. I use this method and it allows characters to be much more competent. At level 5 (an experienced character, in my opinion a soldier with some experience, not a rooky) a horse man (new knight) can have a ride of 8, add some dex and he could easily have a 10 in ride. This would make most ride checks (DC's will be on my mounted combat sheet) DC 15-20, easy or at least possible to do.

So to answer to the 'hitting a moving target' question. I think that the every 50' is -1 penalty is fine. It means a heavy horse (spd 50) funning flat out (X5 cuz all horses have run feat) would be -5 to hit, and a fast horse (spd 70) would be 70x5=350/50=7 so -7 to hit a running jennet. I think that sounds right, and as you said, a human running flat out would only be -2.

Also I think any discussion about horses themselves should be in a separate thread that I will start.
Last edited by drkguy3107 on Sun May 22, 2011 4:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mounted Combat questions

Postby drkguy3107 » Sun May 22, 2011 4:13 pm

Behold another long list of Q's. ;)

For specific rules on maintaining, what are talking about exactly? Do you have to maintain for x1? Personally I think x1 should be free. (of if you can use your movement die while mounted, it only costs 1 to maintain).

Do you have to maintain when changing speed? That would meant that (lets say it takes 2 dice to maintain speed) that if your going x2, it would cost two dice, then if you wanted to accelerate you would only have 2 left to spend and still only be going x4 (horses can go x5). If you were standing still, you could use all dice and accelerate all the way up to x4 from standing still.

If you don't have to maintain when changing speed, then you could simply use 1 dice to speed up or slow down, alternating on different rounds, and in effect get a free die. Personally, I think that you should have to maintain whenever going over x1. However, how much die maintaining should cost depends on if you can use your movement die or not. If you can maintain with 2 (and if movement die counts) Then you can maintain speed and still have 3 die. If thats the case then an MT that gives a free die for maintain/changing speed would be broken (possibly anyway) since you would always have 4 die and maintaining would be free.

Then again, maybe that would be fair, since the MF would require a dex of 14, mounted combat MF, and would be an advanced MF.
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Re: Mounted Combat questions

Postby drkguy3107 » Mon May 23, 2011 9:44 pm

Another question, why does having a ranged weapon give you a penalty for ride checks? How would riding with a bow in your hand be any harder than riding with a lance?
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Re: Mounted Combat questions

Postby Galloglaich » Mon May 23, 2011 11:21 pm

Is that from my rules or SRD? Either way off the top of my head I would guess it means you an only use one hand on the reigns but that would apply to any weapon... of course shooting a bow requires both hands so that definitely makes it harder to control the horse.

G.
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Re: Mounted Combat questions

Postby drkguy3107 » Tue May 24, 2011 1:01 am

Yours, pg 58 on codex martialis v 25.003
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