Huge size

[drkguy3107]

What would be the natural reach and speed of a huge man shaped creature? Like an ogre or giant? I'm thinking 4/4. Also what would be the reach / speed of a huge sized club.

[Galloglaich]

That sounds about right.

A huge sized club would be like a morgenstern or a gudendag (5/0/2 D1-10) , unless you are thinking of a huge sized two-handed club which would be the same with larger reach , lower speed (probably negative) and more damage. Maybe 7/-2/3 Damage 2-16 B/B

Your Hill Giant or Ogre sounds pretty scary already.

G.

[drkguy3107]

I'm thinking of huge one handed clubs, but wouldn't the reach be increased by the creatures natural reach? So wouldn't it be 9(for the gudendag)? Also, since the weapon stats are assuming a human (speed=6) then wouldn't the speed be further decreased? meaning that the stats would be 9/-2/2

Also (this is where the codex could get complicated) what would the onset/melee/grapple ranges be for such an ogre? Would it be at melee when your at onset?

Ya, so this is my two-headed ogre. In my world ogre's are the reason for the evolution of the knight and the development of the heavy lance, as it is the only way a single person can reliably kill one of these things.

In my game a human fighter level 6 with con 14 would only have 37 HP (in my game hp is fixed amount per level plus con) whereas a level 3 ogre (i simply made an ogre class and level it up to get my creature) would have 55 HP So even an ogre half his level would be a powerful foe. Plus with a natural armour of 5, 6 dice (its two-headed so i decided it got 6 dice), and a str of 22, The dmg from it's clubs would be 1-10+6.

Now that I think of it, doesn't 1-10 seem a little low? I mean were talking about a creature thats huge sized so 15-25' tall, wouldn't it be wielding small tree's?

[Galloglaich]

I'm thinking of huge one handed clubs, but wouldn't the reach be increased by the creatures natural reach? So wouldn't it be 9(for the gudendag)? Also, since the weapon stats are assuming a human (speed=6) then wouldn't the speed be further decreased? meaning that the stats would be 9/-2/2

I'm sorry I wasn't very clear, I was listing the Godendag (a two-handed weapon for a human) as the equivalent of a single-handed club for your ogre. So the Godendag has a reach of 5, which was my estimate for a single handed ogre-sized club. An ogre-sized two handed club would have a reach of 7.

Also (this is where the codex could get complicated) what would the onset/melee/grapple ranges be for such an ogre? Would it be at melee when your at onset?

Your gudeline could be the Grizzly bear, which I think is about 9-12 foot tall, if you want a bigger creature you could extrapolate from there.

Ya, so this is my two-headed ogre. In my world ogre's are the reason for the evolution of the knight and the development of the heavy lance, as it is the only way a single person can reliably kill one of these things.

A lance should do it, especially if you were well-mounted and had the various 'knight' feats like spirited charge etc.

In my game a human fighter level 6 with con 14 would only have 37 HP (in my game hp is fixed amount per level plus con) whereas a level 3 ogre (i simply made an ogre class and level it up to get my creature) would have 55 HP So even an ogre half his level would be a powerful foe. Plus with a natural armour of 5, 6 dice (its two-headed so i decided it got 6 dice), and a str of 22, The dmg from it's clubs would be 1-10+6.

Now that I think of it, doesn't 1-10 seem a little low? I mean were talking about a creature thats huge sized so 15-25' tall, wouldn't it be wielding small tree's?

Fifteen feet might be in the ballpark, twenty five feet would probably (to me) be another size category, so maybe 2-16 damage per above or maybe 3-18. Probably 25 Strength too for sure.

The scariest thing about the Ogre though I think would be in grapple, it could just tear you apart, if it grabbed you you could never get away from it. At that size I could really only make a wild guess.

G.

[drkguy3107]

To me 15' is large size (tall as opposed to long which would be a horse) So I'm probably going to say club would do 2-16.

Grappling an ogre would be death as creatures get a +4 to grapple for every size difference so an ogre (huge) would be +8 as well as the strength bonus +8 so your looking at +16 before adding any grappling modifiers, which to me makes sense. I don't see anyone but a hero of legend(not my typical pc) pinning an ogre. Something hercules or roland might do.

Also I need stats for a slam attack, and for a bear hug, trample, and thrown rock (i'm thinking of a rock the size of a human torso)

any ideas?

[Galloglaich]

Slam attack and bear hug should be in or extrapolatable (sorry I know that's not a word) from the Animals table in the Codex, I'll check it in a bit. But of course if an ogre was in range to bear hug you it could just twist your head off. You should make a rending attack, not certain how to handle that precisely, but if the Ogre hits with two hands it should be able to try to just tear you apart or at the very least, bend all of your arms and legs the wrong way.

Also of course, an Ogre would bite. I would certainly bite if I was fighting for my life against a deadly 2 foot tall creature. I would pick it up and bite it's head off.

The rock in the WOTAW II is a 3- 5 lb rock (depending on hardness) and does D6 damage. Each 5 pounds from there would be another step up in damage so a 10 lbs, 1-8, 15 lbs, 1-10, 20 lbs 2-12, 25 lbs 2-16... the size of a human torso ? I guess that would depend on the type of rock, sandstone might be like 50-100 lbs, granite would be something like 300 lbs or more I should guess (I really don't know though). Either way it would cause 'epic' damage, say 6-36 at minimum, 12-72 more realistically.

One of the problems in DnD to me is how it completely nerfs large monsters. That is part of why I only stuck to real world animals for the Codex as a basis for DMs to extrapolate more 'fantastic' monsters. I will probably make some for historical settings or extra supplements in the future, but I didn't want it in the core rules because it's really pure speculation. But in my opinion, if you are an ordinary man fighting a 15' ogre, I would think any blow from that creature would kill or maim you instantly; you might have some chance in really strong armor but not much (it could still easily grab you and twist your head off).

I think according to the Animal rules based on the creatures size it would also get extra MP. So start the combat with a 5 or 6 dice thrown rock attack with a 300 lbs boulder, I would guess that will in fact kill any character... then move into close range for your 2-16+6 3 or 4 dice club attacks, 3-18 or 4-24 for say a small tree-trunk as a weapon

Like this:



G.

[drkguy3107]

Hmm, is a bear hug attack simply a grapple option or what? I've never used one in play before.

As opposed to the rend attack, I think that would just be the same as the bear hug mechanically, if an ogre gets you in grapple, every round he does dmg to you (intense damage).

Ya, I'm thinking the ogre is Large size after all as the picture you posted (great, where did you get it?) is the perfect size for my ogre, and it looks large. So based on that picture, it could throw a rock about the size of a human head, maybe a little less so I"m thinking 20lb.? How heavy would a softball sized rock be?

Hmm, so I'm having a change of heart on the ogre's weaponry. So a huge sized two handed club would be like what dmg? A godendag has spikes (which an ogre club wouldn't) and is 1-12 according to WOTAW. However these weapons are large in the vertical rather than by diameter, and an ogre club would look like the one in your picture, meaning 4"-6" wide. So I'm thinking 3-18, but does that seem way to big for the now L sized creature? I'm trying to decide between 2-16 & 3-18. I'm thinking the ogre club should be 9/-2/2 2-16 B/B, and the weapon would be pretty much unbreakable short of repeated axe blows.

So a hit would be (on the low side) 2-16+6=8-22. The creature has 6 dice so if it wanted it could simply perform size attacks, if they all hit then bare minimum dmg would be 48, max damage would be 132, more than enough to kill just ANYONE in my game system. A 15th level fighter (I stop my games at 15 and 15th lvl is the greatest fighter in the world so 10 is an extremely high and experienced fighter like your average swordmaster.) with Con 16 would have 87 HP. So only the worlds greatest fighter with the best armour would have a chance of surviving one rd with an ogre if all it's blows hit.



So I only need to make trample damage. What is the trample dmg for a horse?

[Galloglaich]

As opposed to the rend attack, I think that would just be the same as the bear hug mechanically, if an ogre gets you in grapple, every round he does dmg to you (intense damage).

I think if there is a certain disparity in size / strength you should have the option to cause a serious critical hit of some kind, and that includes man-sized creatures contending with smaller creatures.

Ya, I'm thinking the ogre is Large size after all as the picture you posted (great, where did you get it?)

There is an interesting story behind that drawing I can't get into in a lot of detail right now, but the artist is Hans Burgkmair. The creature is a representation of a 'wild-man' of which there are several mythological threads crossing through during the Reniassance.

is the perfect size for my ogre, and it looks large. So based on that picture, it could throw a rock about the size of a human head, maybe a little less so I"m thinking 20lb.? How heavy would a softball sized rock be?

I don't know. Depends what kind of rock probably. But it would be deadly.

Hmm, so I'm having a change of heart on the ogre's weaponry. So a huge sized two handed club would be like what dmg? A godendag has spikes (which an ogre club wouldn't) and is 1-12 according to WOTAW. However these weapons are large in the vertical rather than by diameter, and an ogre club would look like the one in your picture, meaning 4"-6" wide. So I'm thinking 3-18, but does that seem way to big for the now L sized creature? I'm trying to decide between 2-16 & 3-18. I'm thinking the ogre club should be 9/-2/2 2-16 B/B, and the weapon would be pretty much unbreakable short of repeated axe blows.

I'm thinking 3-18, but not unbreakable. If it's wood, it will be relatively soft but a lot of hit points.

So only the worlds greatest fighter with the best armour would have a chance of surviving one rd with an ogre if all it's blows hit.

Sounds like a tough campaign...!

So I only need to make trample damage. What is the trample dmg for a horse?

An elephant is 2-12+10 trample damage. Page 80 core rules.

G.

[drkguy3107]

Well, my world is very low magic low fantasy so an ogre is not an everyday encounter. If 4 mounted men came across 1 ogre I think the fight would be pretty unbalanced for the ogre. One lance hit (if the horse an man each had a str of 16) would do 1d8 (4) +str (3)+ horse str (3) x 3 (spirited charge)= 30.

Since the previous ogre I gave had 55 hp It would be close to dead. Not to mention a man on a horse can easily outrun the ogre's speed of 40ft so If you could make two passes without getting clubed yourself it's close to dead.

Ogre's are truly monsters in my world, they aren't some level 2 encounter (what a stupid idea, that fighting a creature twice your size would ever be that easy, I can't remember a lot of people beating the snot out of a bear) A single ogre is a challenge for a group of 5th lvl characters. Now trolls (soon coming once I have finished the ogre and post it here) are something a person could conceivably beat in a 1-1 fight, but again only a experienced fighter.

[Galloglaich]

Are those going to be DnD Trolls or Norse Trolls?

I'm looking forward to your Ogre, maybe we can put it in the Core rules book if you want to.

G.