Updating Codex core rules

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Updating Codex core rules

Postby Galloglaich » Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:08 pm

I'm doing a minor (though long overdue) update of the core rules to address some of the issues raised here in the last couple of weeks, and also to put in a couple of new Martial Feats.

Anybody got anything in particular they would like to see corrected?

Once this is done I'm going to do a more fundamental update to Weapons I and II. And I'm still working on lifepath and Magic.

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Re: Updating Codex core rules

Postby Daeruin » Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:34 pm

I think as long as you can address the various questions I've posted in the past couple of weeks, I'll be good. Particularly the two missing feats referred to (Florentine Defense and Durchwechseln) and two weapon fighting. There were a few other minor clarifications that came up, too.

There are still a few things that I mentioned way back when I first read the book that could really improve the book's usability. They're more to do with the editing and layout than actual rules, so maybe you don't want to address them right now. If you want to, let me know—I'd be happy to give my suggestions or help out more directly if needed. If you want to do a thorough proofreading, I'm still up for that. Codex Martialis is one of the coolest gaming supplements I've ever seen, and I'd still like to be able to do something to help out one of these days.
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Re: Updating Codex core rules

Postby Galloglaich » Tue Nov 27, 2012 7:21 pm

Your suggestions are welcome Daerun (including for layout and typos and so on). I appreciate all the help I can get!

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Re: Updating Codex core rules

Postby Luca C. » Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:42 am

Galloglaich wrote:I'm doing a minor (though long overdue) update of the core rules to address some of the issues raised here in the last couple of weeks, and also to put in a couple of new Martial Feats.

Anybody got anything in particular they would like to see corrected?

Once this is done I'm going to do a more fundamental update to Weapons I and II. And I'm still working on lifepath and Magic.

G


I'm very interested in this "...a more fundamental update to Weapons I and II..."
When is this going to happen?
Can you tell us anything about that?
Thanks a lot!
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Re: Updating Codex core rules

Postby Galloglaich » Tue Feb 19, 2013 8:34 pm

I was simpoly going to go through it to do some general updates that reflect my better understanding of the history and capabilities of the weapons covered since they were originally written a few years ago.

I already did an update of Weapons II (Armor and Missile Weapons) which includes crossbow spanning devices, several new images, some new types of crossbows, a few adjustments to various weapons numebers, and what I think is a better section on gunpowder and guns. I haven't had a chance to upload this as I'm on the road on a job, but I'll do it this coming weekend.

I'm hoping to do a general pass through Weapons I as well to fix some nagging things, maybe put in a few more weapons, and adjust a few of the existing ones. I'll notify everyone here when that is done.

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Re: Updating Codex core rules

Postby Luca C. » Sun Feb 24, 2013 9:18 am

About crossbows: I've noticed one thing (and I'm not sure if I've already told you before).
I think this reference in Weapon II p. 56 is wrong:

"...Balestrino, named perhaps after a town in Italy by the same name...."

I guess you are refering to the Italian town "Palestrina", but the relevance of that town to a small crossbow is dubious at best.

Simpler explanations are usually the truest one.
Any native Italian speaker (like me) will tell you that a "Balestrino" or "Balestrina" is only a Small "Balestra."
"Balestra" is the Italian name of the Crossbow.
I suspect it is somewhat related to the ancient Latin "Balista" (which, in its own turn, derives from the ancient Greek word "Ballein" which is to throw...you can find it in the word "Balistic").

You can fine the same reference to the same linguistic root "Balest" even in other languages, for example in the word "Arbalest" (or Arbalete in Italian) which, I suspect, means just a bigger or stronger balestra....

In conclusion I feel that your reference to an "Italian town" should be deleted and a "Balestrino" in Italian means only "Small Crossbow."
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Re: Updating Codex core rules

Postby Galloglaich » Mon Feb 25, 2013 1:14 pm

Thanks, I will fix that!

Did you see the video of Leo Todeschini shooting one by the way? I was surprised by how small they actually are..

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Re: Updating Codex core rules

Postby Luca C. » Mon Feb 25, 2013 11:28 pm

Can you show me the link?

I'm also very interested in Torsion Spring Technology & Manubaliste & Cheirobalistre.
They were apparently quite diffused in the Late Roman and Byzantine armies....but they just disapeared during the Middle Ages.
Maybe such weapons were more difficult to craft than normal crossbows, and I fear more expensive.
I suspect that it was just an over-complicated technology...but it intrigues me that the Romans never developed proper crossbows and always prefered such torsion spring weapons!
Were they maybe effective weapons?

I was not able to find a study which can be trusted about the real effects of such weapons.
There's plenty of evidence for Medieval/Early modern crossbows, but all we know about the effects of Roman manubalistae are pretty fragmentary references in literary sources and very few archaeological finds which are difficult to reconstruct (e.g. Xanten).
Even modern models cannot be really trusted, I fear.

As far as I know we virtually do not know how much this technology can be compared with Crossbows/Arbalests.
Did the shot with greater ot lower strength than crossbow?
I fear that every answer would be too speculative

I was wondering whether you know more than me, or can you show me where to look?

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Re: Updating Codex core rules

Postby Galloglaich » Tue Feb 26, 2013 4:43 pm

Here is the video of the Balestrino

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=se_N8CrooPY

As to your question... I don't know. It's a very good question. From reading tactitus and Caesars 'Gallic Wars' and Procopius 'The Wars', it' seems clear that these were very important weapons which were effective for the Romans. I think they saved Caesars life when he was invading Britain for example. I suspect these weapons continued in use into at least the early medieval era as siege weapons because you do see them quite a bit in artwork, but they may have been too cumbersome in the field to deal with fast-moving horse archers, they seem to have moved from field use more to siege warfare over time.

The only weapons of this era is the more crossbow-like Gastrophetes, which is a rather ingenius design though in practice it seems like it because somewhat exhausting to use after a few shots. But to be honest, I was shooting an ordinary modern hunting crossbow of only 150 lb draw, I was pretty tired after a couple of hours of it.

It has so far been very hard to get accurate information on the crossbows, to be honest, I think they are just now starting to be explored by very skilled hobbiests are only beginning to figure out how to make them. Leo is certainly one of the pioneers. I have seen similar images like the torsion type wepaons you posted which I assume are of re-enactors, and I would assume this would be the best place to look. There is a guy I have worked with in the past a bit named Matthew Amt in the US from a group called Legio XX

http://www.larp.com/legioxx/

...who I have talked to about other Roman technology, but I suspect the most sophisticated groups of this sort are in Europe, probably in Italy as well as in the Balkans. So you are probably in a better position to find out than I am. If I do find a good source I will post here, please do the same.

To be candid, it was in fact the lack of good information on these weapons that has prevented me from writing a codex supplement for artillery and siege warfare, though I am getting closer. The excerpt from the Kings Mirror is a terrific starting point for siege weapon technologies, along with a few others, and I've learned a great deal about early gunpowder weapons though there is still much to learn. Trebuchets of course are fairly well understood now (probably since the 1990's). But this type of torsion spring artillery is still a bit of a mystery.

To start with, I'll post a question to Myarmoury

http://www.myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic ... 439#265439

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Re: Updating Codex core rules

Postby Galloglaich » Fri Mar 01, 2013 2:31 pm

ask and ye shall receive!

From Leo of Tods stuff:

"Last year I headed the engineering team on a show called 'Beat the Ancestors' and in the second episode we built a catapulta, possibly bigger than any built before and due to the format we gave it a twist. We built it quickly, but to the correct proportions and with care where it was needed. Watch the show to see that version. After hours however..............

We swapped in a set of arms made to the Roman dimensions and had a play. We only had time for 6 or 7 shots and so no real time to get to grips with it and the bolts were not tuned for flight, the bundles not fully torsioned and the draw was not full and it managed to shhot a 1.5 meter bolt 279m and a 1.2 meter bolt 319m. This last distance is more than achieved since the fall of Rome."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgNlPOMOps0

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