Artisan class

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Re: Artisan class

Postby Galloglaich » Mon Jul 01, 2013 3:44 am

Yeah I was thinking earlier about something like a fusion of that and the random element.

I was thinking, how did they control this in stats in early DnD? Well it was actually something like the codex, if not a roll-many-keep-one system, it was a 'roll-many-keep-fewer' system, i.e. I think the most common version is you roll 4d6 and keep the best 3, and sometimes you also get to then assign the points however you like.

I like this kind of system since it lets you influence your luck on the front end, but it doesn't involve things like re-rolls which ruin immersion or just out and out point buying which are a little too static for me (and harder to design for since you really have to balance everything).

So maybe a you get a limited number of 'roll-many-keep-few' / 'roll-many-keep-one' die rolls that you can use, and you can distribute them between your personal stats, your fathers 'Estate' (essentially social status), your mothers Estate, and your own Estate at startup, which is a table where you roll the dice, and based on your parents Estates and your die roll you can choose to be say either a low level Priest or a mid-level peasant for example.

So lets say you have for example 9 rolls, and of those 9, you distribute 6 'enhanced' rolls however you like.

That way really good luck could allow someone to be an aristocrat AND kind of a badass, but for the most part you'll either be putting your 'luck' into your stats or in your class and wealth. You could also maybe get a 'discount' on one of your class rolls, so that say your mother might have been high-status but not your father, meaning you have some stake to claim in a powerful family but you'll only ever get it if you claw your way into power.

And the stats thing also ties in with how I'm making the more 'prestige' classes in this list, since the good ones like Knights and Patricians have minimum stats requirements.

Thoughts?

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Re: Artisan class

Postby drkguy3107 » Fri Jul 05, 2013 6:02 pm

I use the social status and wealth system of the old game of thrones rpg. it works very well, you have different wealth/social status levels, the higher you are, the lower a level you have to be to balance out teh game. If the players want to all be high level then have them all start lower, it works fine. being a level 3 baron make you much more powerful than a level 5 wandering swordsman in many different arenas.

As for multiclass, just make new classes, don't use any of the old ones, that what I did. Don't make NPC classes. For my game the classes are fighter, huntsman, mystic, priest, artisan, noble, thief. Almost all merchant type characters are some mix of artisan, thief, or noble.

The classes are all well balanced, so players never choose one over another (aside for personal preference or type of game of course), and you don't get a whole lot at level 1 except the variety of skills you can pick from.

As for your skill problem, just change the skills in the game and how many points everyone gets.

Also I use the GoT point buy system for character generation and it works great. Really my character creation system is finished. The only thing my game needs is a streamlined explanation of combat (takes new people too long to learn it) and a mounted combat system.

Also just make different magic spells if your wizards are too strong.
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Re: Artisan class

Postby Galloglaich » Fri Jul 05, 2013 7:11 pm

We are moving along similar lines, I'm just using my own social class thing instead of relying on Game of Thrones (obviously I can't do that even if I wanted to, and while I find GoT entertaining, it's not really historically grounded enough for my taste). The classes and "NPC Classes" simply differ in that one group are more specialized and designed around 'skill packages', while the other is more generalized but not quite as strong. I think they work well together.

I have made my own magic system to go along with this (which mainly consists of new spells, some derived from another D20 book I published through a company in the UK a few years ago) but even though that is 95% complete, that last 5% is a bear.

Speaking of which, I don't know if it will work out this way for you or not, but I found in publishing my system, the devil is in the details in that last 5-10% of the job; it's a big step from having a functional homebrew system to one that you can expose to the public. That's why it's good to have a strong beta -test group, including not just people you know but also strangers you meet online or through some other venue (local gaming shop maybe? meetup.org?) who you can get feedback from (and be ready to react quickly to it). The codex combat system was a successful homebrew system for 5 years before I even started testing, it didn't really become close to what it is now until the 2nd or 3rd year of 'open beta', during which time it probably changed at least 20% as a result of user feedback, and good ideas from HEMA people and gamers (yourself among many others).

More recently, I was able to run the Codex Baltic campaign a couple of years ago, but I'm still a long way from being able to publish it. So little time to work on the fun stuff.... :(

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Re: Artisan class

Postby drkguy3107 » Sat Jul 06, 2013 2:50 am

You could because the wealth system is OGL, and because the wealth system works perfectly well (and is easily moded)

Wealth levels
-1: slave, outlaw, destitute person
0: common peasant or avg person
1: wealthy peasant, merchant, priest, knight, etc.
2: wealthy knight, master of a craft, etc.
3: Baron, guild head, bishop, etc.
4: Dukes, high level nobles, certain bishops or archbishops, very wealthy merchant families/organizations
5: Kings, royal families, popes, other richest peoples.
6: You can easily remove this one from your game, but the church, the wealthiest people in teh world, etc.

If you disagree with a particular ranking, just change ti, if you think merchants should be wealthier, move them to a higher position.

This goes along with an influence system/social status system: which works teh same.

at level 2 you gain +1 ECL (effective character level)
at level you gain +2 ECL, etc.

If you want someone wealthier or poorer than there social status would indicate, give them the wealthy feat, or the poor defect. Done. All is represented with two numbers and a feat or a defect (and then only in times of a discrepancy.).
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Re: Artisan class

Postby drkguy3107 » Sat Jul 06, 2013 2:52 am

I have been testing this for about 5 years now, so I know how much stuff has to be changed. I still want to radically symplify combat, without removing options, either by moving general abilities to feats, or limiting some of the underused options.
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Re: Artisan class

Postby Galloglaich » Sat Jul 06, 2013 2:25 pm

What I mean specifically is I found it was very different to have hundreds of people you don't know suddenly using your system than running your own game with your own group, but it sounds like you have it pretty well figured out.

Anyway, I made some progress with the chargen system last night, I should have a new update soon which will hopefully trigger a few more interesting discussions if nothing else.

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Re: Artisan class

Postby Galloglaich » Mon Aug 05, 2013 11:45 pm

Speaking of artisans, the traditional German craft artisans journeyman practice got a cool writeup in Buzzfeed the other day

http://www.buzzfeed.com/kevintang/germa ... nternships

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Re: Artisan class

Postby Daeruin » Thu Aug 08, 2013 6:36 pm

Galloglaich wrote:while I find GoT entertaining, it's not really historically grounded enough for my taste

That's kind of funny, because GoT is one of the most historically grounded fantasies out there.

BTW, I second drkguy's support of the GoT RPG wealth system. It's one of the best ones I've seen. Abstract enough that you don't end up wasting time counting pennies, but very flexible and usable.
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Re: Artisan class

Postby Galloglaich » Thu Aug 08, 2013 6:55 pm

I am doing something similar to this but I'm just incorporating class level and wealth level together. For most medieval Estates I think that works.

My problem with GoT is mostly on the technical level - I think he gets the intrigue and so on pretty well, especially for the main story arc (the Yorks vs. the Lancasters... sorry I mean the Starks vs. the Lannisters) but he's borrowing from things I'm familiar with and where he twists or clichés it a little bit it irks me.

I still watch the show though.


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Re: Artisan class

Postby Galloglaich » Fri Oct 18, 2013 10:03 pm

Believe it or not, I have been still working pretty hard on this.

I've been working a lot on the character classes, right now there are 5 'core' and 9 'prestige' classes, almost all at least somewhat fleshed out. One thing I'm wondering about is how much, if any, magic to allow, but more on that in a minute.

I also had a meeting Friday with Reynard Rochon, who is the artist that did the artwork on the initial Codex Martialis book, the first edition so to speak. He did 11 preliminary sketches for the new character generation book.

I also talked to Willy Rosencrans who at long last has done the initial work on 6 mini-scenarios for the Codex Baltic campaign book, which I'm tentatively calling "A sharp point and a hard edge." This is an adventure setting book meant to go along with the (all-history) Codex Guide to the Medieval Baltic (which itself is in dire need of an update but I don't know when I'll be able to get to that).

I got a really great book on medieval guns which I'm using to update the firearms section of the Armor and Missile weapons supplement book.

And the Magic book is almost to the point of being ready for beta. Going to work on it a bit more this weekend.

Two of the new classes are somewhat powerful spellcasters, by the standards of a low-magic campaign. These are 'the Zealot', and 'the Scholar'. The former does priestly miracles and the latter some magic out of the grimoires. These are not traditional comic book powers like in most games but are more indirect and based on historical sources.

What I'm debating is allowing some kind of funny cantrips for peasants and outlaws. I may post some of those here for review later.

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