Codex elemtns in an AD&D 1st or 2nd campaign

Forum for Codex adaptations for 1st and 2nd edition DnD

Codex elemtns in an AD&D 1st or 2nd campaign

Postby JoseFreitas » Thu Feb 09, 2012 3:26 pm

I have posted my ideas for using those elements of CODEX I have retained in an AD&D game here, at Dragonsfoot:

http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewt ... &start=120

Feel free to chime in with ideas and comments. I am constantly recommending your game supplements to everyone, and have just bought Baltic campaign. Will post comments later.
JoseFreitas
 
Posts: 24
Joined: Thu Mar 18, 2010 10:49 am

Re: Codex elemtns in an AD&D 1st or 2nd campaign

Postby Galloglaich » Thu Feb 09, 2012 4:31 pm

Cool, thanks! Welcome to the forum. I'll read your post with interest and comment.

G
Galloglaich
 
Posts: 2009
Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2008 5:30 pm

Re: Codex elemtns in an AD&D 1st or 2nd campaign

Postby Galloglaich » Thu Feb 09, 2012 4:58 pm

Weapons will have the following stats.

Reach, described in feet. If one weapon has a reach advantage over the other of 2' or more, it gets initiative automatically on the first round. After that, it goes to normal melee range, unless the wielder of the weapon gets a chance to go back to longer reach.

Damage: btb. I've modified a few weapons, since I don't necessarily gree with Btb ratings, and I don't use vs. L dmg, but this works well with btb ratings.

Critical dmg: if a blow results in a Natural 20, you automatically hit, and no Defense is allowed (see below). If you hit by a margin of 4 or more, you add Crit Dmg, which is in the form of an extra die. +1d4 for size S, +1d6 for M and +1d8 for L is the norm, but there will be exceptions for some weapons. There may be more than one rating: for instance Halberds are at +1d6 for Thrusting, and +1d8 for Swinging, which may matter since Halberds get a bigger Reach bonus and Speed factor with thrusting than with Swinging (see below). Roll randomly if the player has not announced what he's using, assuming a 4 in 6 chance for the best or more logical option at the time.

Speed factor: btb, when initiative is tied, will decide who goes first on that round, and possibly who gets a Free Blow (Attack of Opportunity!). As mentioned above, there may be different ratings for different aspects of the weapon.

Reach Bonus: for use only on the first round of combat when opponents are closing with each other for the first time, at Onset range. As soon as opponents have traded two actions between themselves, and at least one succeeds, they will be at Melee range and lose Reach bonus. For example, if A attacks twice, and hits at least once, they will be at Melee; or if A attacks and B defends, because you will only defend if your opponent hits (but before rolling for dmg). See below. If A attacks and misses, and B attacks and also misses, then they will still be at Onset range and can continue using Reach bonus.

Characters can combine a step to a different range with their attack, but this will trigger a Free Blow. Same when moving from Melee to Grapple, or Grapple to Melee. Or Fleeing, btb, triggers a Free Blow at +2 to the back but character is now out of range and can move away from combat.

Characters can get only one Free Blow per round, except Dex Reaction Adj gives an extra one per +1 of bonus. But only if you are using light, easy to wield weapons (see below for Fighting styles and Specialization). So it is actually a good strategy for the Orcs to have a few of their own pulling out of Melee back to Reach, so they get their +3 hit bonus with Haberds, because only one of them will be targeted by the Free Blow!

Speed bonus: some weapons are fast and easily wielded, or very well-balanced. They get this bonus in all rounds where initiative is tied and Speed factor determines who goes first (you can get this bonus even if you lost initiative because your opponent has a faster weapon... he'll probably also have a good Speed bonus). Note this is different from Codex, because Codex has this modifier for all attacks at Melee range, I only have it when initiatives tie.

Reach bonus is never a minus, but Speed and Grapple can be. You may have a weapon size M which can be used at Grappling range, but it might get a penalty to strike, for instance.

Defense bonus: this is applied when the character opts to make a Parry with shield or weapon. To make a Defense: after your opponent hits, and before he rolls dmg, if you have an attack available you can declare a defense. Determine what AC your opponent could have hit with his blow, this is your target AC for the defense roll. For example, if Hrothgar, a Fighter 4 with THACO 17 rolls a 14, he could have hit AC 3 at best, so a defense has to hit AC 3. Add the Defense bonus of your weapon to your roll, and of course Shields have the best bonuses. If you roll exactly the number needed, you may have triggered a special effect: weapon breaking, etc... as well as some special combat abilities which come into play here. If you roll a Natural 20, you get your attack back in the form of a free blow to Counterattack.

Dodge: your defense bonus will be your Dex Reaction Adj. Size will add further modifiers, with Halflings dodging Ogres getting a reasonable bonus. You can declare a Dodge and Retreat and get a +4, if you have enough space behind you, but you lose the possibility of Counterattack (see above) and if you miss by a lot you may be forced to save vs. falling prone. Armor, encumbrance, etc... will be a penalty, of course. A Disengage is similar to a Dodge, but allows you to choose to be at Onset or out of range at the end, if successful. Different set of penalties apply.

Weapon vs. AC: you can play this btb, but I've simplified it. Basically, I've collapsed all ACs into four categories: Unarmored (may include Padded armor, but no one ever uses it in my campaign!), Leather based armor (includes Leather, Studded leather and some forms of brigandine), Mail based armor (includes ring mail, chain mail and some forms of brigandine) and Plate based armor (includes Plate mail and armor, and splint and banded). Ignore shields, don't look at the AC number,just at the actual armor the target is wearing. This simplifies adjustments a lot and you can write it as +2/0/0/-3 for instance.

Finally, Hardness determines how your weapon fares when a tie is rolled in a Parry. The attacker rolls his weapon's dmg, and compares it with this stat. Rather than track individual hit points of weapon etc... I've adapted a Chart from Fantasy Wargaming and I roll on it (on the column under the amount your opponent's attack exceeded your weapon's hardness, in dmg points) to see whether the weapon breaks, is damaged, torn from your hand, etc...

Codex Martialis has a large number of Martial Feats which really don't have a place in AD&D. What I do is to add some of them to Weapon Specialization, so that characters that choose to specialize in the Longsword, for example, now have the option to use Halfswording techniques (allowing them to gain the possibility of using the sword at Grapple range and gain a small vs. AC bonus to penetrate armor, or allowing them to use a Feint, etc... You may also allow more Free Blows with weapons with which the character is specialized. Some styles and benefits could be allowed to Thieves.

In my system, Weapon specialization allows a +1 to hit and the increased rate of attacks, but not extra dmg (although it is possible to increase specialization levels and gain dmg bonus). The other way is simply to create a few Fighting styles the character can learn, and combine a few advantages into them. You can follow historical tendencis, creating a more German longsword and heavy sword method, a more Italian fencing method and so on. Characters must spend weapon proficiencies to gain them (in addition to training, of course) and they now can have an incentive to travel to distant Perrenland to find the famous Talhoffer Master of Arms and learn his style!



yeah this is interesting stuff, I'll make a subforum for AD&D and the Codex and put this in there... I particularly like the idea that if both people miss you can stay at onset, that is interesting....

G
Galloglaich
 
Posts: 2009
Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2008 5:30 pm

Re: Codex elemtns in an AD&D 1st or 2nd campaign

Postby Galloglaich » Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:53 pm

One other way besides damage that you can differentiate an axe from a sword is that the axe can be used to grapple, for example, to hook an enemies weapon, to trip them by hooking their leg or foot, or to pull down your opponents shield. This is how they were used in real life quite a bit (as with many polearms as well) and you even see this in re-enactor battles and so forth. It works particularly well to pull down a shield and then thrust to their face with the axe, and you'll notice that many battle axes have more or less pointy blades on the top for precisely that reason.

I don't know what mechanic you would use in AD&D or OE D&D to simulate this 'grapple from a distance' capabiliity but it seems like it shouldn't be too hard or unbalancing to introduce something.

Axes can also be used to cut apart shields pretty easily, which should also be fairly easy to model in a 1E rules system I would think.

When you make shields a little bit more useful in the rules, as they should be (which it seems like you have done, if I'm reading your house-rules right) then it has the added benefit that you can also enhance other weapons which are somewhat specialzied against shields, which I in fact think was one of the reasons why axes remained so popular on the battelfield for so long.

G
Galloglaich
 
Posts: 2009
Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2008 5:30 pm

Re: Codex elemtns in an AD&D 1st or 2nd campaign

Postby JoseFreitas » Tue Feb 14, 2012 2:28 pm

Galloglaich wrote:yeah this is interesting stuff, I'll make a subforum for AD&D and the Codex and put this in there... I particularly like the idea that if both people miss you can stay at onset, that is interesting....

G

I had to come with some mechanic for this, because in AD&D mostly characters only get 1 attack per round, except for Fighters who might get 2 attacks every other round (and 1 on the other), 2 attacks per round at level 7 - and this assuming that they have some kind of weapon specialization (if they don't, then they get 3/2 attacks/rounds at 7th level). So there would be no place for mechanics that require characters to spend extra attacks to remain at Onset. I am basically assuming that attackers will want to remain at Onset, but any attack from an opponent or defense (which succeeds) will negate this. So attackers can Step and Attack and use the Step to move back to Onset if they want to, but this will trigger a Free Blow. Basically, moving from range to range is free, and can be combined with any attack or combat maneuver, but will trigger a Free Blow. Characters do not have to have attacks to use Free Blows, they get one free Free Blow (!) per round. Again, because AD&D assumes a much lower rate of attacks per round.
JoseFreitas
 
Posts: 24
Joined: Thu Mar 18, 2010 10:49 am

Re: Codex elemtns in an AD&D 1st or 2nd campaign

Postby JoseFreitas » Tue Feb 14, 2012 3:02 pm

Galloglaich wrote:One other way besides damage that you can differentiate an axe from a sword is that the axe can be used to grapple, for example, to hook an enemies weapon, to trip them by hooking their leg or foot, or to pull down your opponents shield. This is how they were used in real life quite a bit (as with many polearms as well) and you even see this in re-enactor battles and so forth. It works particularly well to pull down a shield and then thrust to their face with the axe, and you'll notice that many battle axes have more or less pointy blades on the top for precisely that reason.

I don't know what mechanic you would use in AD&D or OE D&D to simulate this 'grapple from a distance' capabiliity but it seems like it shouldn't be too hard or unbalancing to introduce something.

Axes can also be used to cut apart shields pretty easily, which should also be fairly easy to model in a 1E rules system I would think.

When you make shields a little bit more useful in the rules, as they should be (which it seems like you have done, if I'm reading your house-rules right) then it has the added benefit that you can also enhance other weapons which are somewhat specialzied against shields, which I in fact think was one of the reasons why axes remained so popular on the battelfield for so long.

G



OK, some answers.

[1] It is easy to do what you're proposing for axes/polearms/etc... Basic D&D has lots of cool mechanics in the Weapon Mastery rules (in the D&D Masters Set), and AD&D 2nd edition has good mechanics in Player's Options: Combat and Tactics book, which again are easy to adapt. In my game, I mostly relegate this kind of special attacks to characters who have weapon specialization (or Fighting Styles). I assume rank and file soldiers haven't trained enough for this level of sophistication, period. If someone were trying to use it without the skill, I might allow it but at their non-proficiency penalty.

Hook and Trip are separate methods, and some Fighting styles might teach only one or the other. The basic game mechanic is: attack, and if successful, make an Opposed roll. Opposed rolls are 1d20, with the higher roll winning. I generally give the initiator a generic +2 (he is exerting himself and has seized the initiative), other bonuses depend on the situation, but difference in THAC0 is always one, to simulate the difference in skills between various levels of fighters (this would be the equivalent of BAB in D&D3). For Hook I allow Str bonuses, for Trip, Dex bonuses. The difference between the two: Hook, if successful, partially immobilizes the target, who can be attacked at +2, defends at -2, and cannot move away; but the initial "to hit" roll disregards AC (uses AC10 - Dex bonus). Trip makes the opponent prone, requiring a round to get up (losing one attack) during which the character is at +4 to be struck with long weapons (+2 with other weapons) and defends himself at -4. But the attack is made against the target's regular AC.

[2] Re, Shields, I allow them to give a +2 AC bonus in all situations, except for very light Buckler style shields. But mostly I give them big bonuses in active defenses. Note that I have reduced the bonuses you give on the weapons profiles, to in between +1 to +3 (rather than up to +6 like you do), and shields get +4 if the character choosesto actively defend himself. which is a pretty good bonus.
JoseFreitas
 
Posts: 24
Joined: Thu Mar 18, 2010 10:49 am

Re: Codex elemtns in an AD&D 1st or 2nd campaign

Postby JoseFreitas » Tue Feb 14, 2012 3:08 pm

Also, I was here on your forum a year or so ago, you may remmber me, I had already posted re. older editions of the game and Codex. You were kind enough to offer me the Weapons of the Ancient World supplement.
JoseFreitas
 
Posts: 24
Joined: Thu Mar 18, 2010 10:49 am

Re: Codex elemtns in an AD&D 1st or 2nd campaign

Postby JoseFreitas » Tue Feb 14, 2012 3:14 pm

This is what a weapon profile looks like in my game. Note similarities to your own rules. I had posted this in Dragonsfoot:

Mace, Flanged.
Size M, reach 3'.
Speed factor: 6
Reach/Speed/Grapple/Def: 0/0/NA/+1
Dmg: 1d6+1
Crit: +1d6 (plus possible stun)
Armor Adj. 0/0/+1/+1
Hardness: 10

A simple profile, but the Halberd:

Halberd.
Size L, reach 6'
Speed Factor: 9 (but 7 when Thrusting)
Reach: +3 (+1 when swinging)
Speed: +0 (but -2 if swinging)
Grapple: NA
Defense: +2
Dmg: 1d10 (but 1d8 thrusting)
Crit: +1d8 (+1d6 if thrusting)
Armor Adj. 0/0/+1/+2
Note: the bonus adj. are for swinging strikes, otehrwise reduce by 1. Some Halberds were made of tempered steel, probably the only type of pole arms to ever be done so. If the weapon os tempered steel, doube price and add another +1 to vs. Mail and Plate.
Hardness: 7 (but a 1 in 6 chance of 10 if the blow hits the head rather than the shaft)

The typical sword:

Longsword
(using Codex Arming Sword as inspiration)
Size M, reach 4'
Speed Factor: 5
Reach/Speed/Grapple/Def: 0/+1/NA*/+1
Longswords may be used at Grapple if the attacker has Halfswording skill, in which case it is -2. An attack roll of 1 in Halfswording automatically results in 1d4 dmg to the hand, and a save to avoid having the hand useless for 1d6 days.
Dmg: 1d8
Crit: +1d6
Armor Adj. +1/0/0/-2*
Characters can declare that they go for Halfswording at normal Melee reach; this may trigger a Free Blow if the character loses initiative. If they do, the -2 vs Plate becomes a +1, but see above for dangers of Halfswording.
Hardness: 8
Longswords may be used 2-handed in extremis, for +1 dmg but: Reach becomes 3 and 1/2.

In AD&D initiative is decided by rolling 1d6 per side. Higher rolls gains the initiative. But if there is a tie, then Weapon Speed Factor determines who goes first, hence the Speed factor in the weapon profiles. In my rules Grapple Bonus indicates the modifier when using the weapon at Grapple range, not a bonus to initiate Grapple maneuvers.
JoseFreitas
 
Posts: 24
Joined: Thu Mar 18, 2010 10:49 am

Re: Codex elemtns in an AD&D 1st or 2nd campaign

Postby JoseFreitas » Tue Feb 14, 2012 3:16 pm

Also, you might go to the Dragonsfoot discussion page, and look at the discussion regarding the ranges of swords vs. halberds, and give me your opinion on it. I'd like that.
JoseFreitas
 
Posts: 24
Joined: Thu Mar 18, 2010 10:49 am

Re: Codex elemtns in an AD&D 1st or 2nd campaign

Postby Galloglaich » Tue Feb 14, 2012 4:38 pm

JoseFreitas wrote:Hook and Trip are separate methods, and some Fighting styles might teach only one or the other. The basic game mechanic is: attack, and if successful, make an Opposed roll. Opposed rolls are 1d20, with the higher roll winning. I generally give the initiator a generic +2 (he is exerting himself and has seized the initiative), other bonuses depend on the situation, but difference in THAC0 is always one, to simulate the difference in skills between various levels of fighters (this would be the equivalent of BAB in D&D3). For Hook I allow Str bonuses, for Trip, Dex bonuses. The difference between the two: Hook, if successful, partially immobilizes the target, who can be attacked at +2, defends at -2, and cannot move away; but the initial "to hit" roll disregards AC (uses AC10 - Dex bonus). Trip makes the opponent prone, requiring a round to get up (losing one attack) during which the character is at +4 to be struck with long weapons (+2 with other weapons) and defends himself at -4. But the attack is made against the target's regular AC.


It seems like you might be able to slip in a circumstantial hook bonus for different weapons; certain ones like a bill-hook for example excel at this particular technique. bills and halberds were used a great deal to pull riders off of horses.

You could also differentiate shields from passive and active defense. Larger shields might provide more passive defense, somewhat smaller more agile shields better active defense.

G.
Galloglaich
 
Posts: 2009
Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2008 5:30 pm

Next

Return to Codex and older versions of DnD

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest