The Martial Pool and the Book of Nine Swords

The place to discuss the new d20 dice pool mechanics.

The Martial Pool and the Book of Nine Swords

Postby Achan hiArusa » Sat Apr 18, 2009 9:26 pm

Have you given any thought to the Tome of Battle and the Martial Pool? Here are the maneuvers if you haven't seen the book:

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20061225a
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Re: The Martial Pool and the Book of Nine Swords

Postby Galloglaich » Sun Apr 19, 2009 3:30 pm

I read through some of those just now, and I really have no idea how the Codex could relate to that, I just have no point of reference for that kind of game play. It reads like World of Warcraft to me.

Do you have any ideas how it could be integrated? Maybe I missed something.

G.
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Re: The Martial Pool and the Book of Nine Swords

Postby Achan hiArusa » Mon Apr 20, 2009 12:07 am

In context these are class features for three unique classes, the Crusader, the Warblade (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dn ... 02a&page=2), and the Swordsage. The crusader is the paladin replacement, the warblade the fighter replacement, and the swordsage the monk replacement.

Other characters can learn stances and maneuvers by taking the Martial Study and Martial Stance feats. The martial study feat allows you to use on maneuver that you choose at the time you get the feat and the Martial Stance allows a single stance. You can have to three maneuvers and there is no written limit on stances. You have no refresh method and you can't trade up for better powers.

It was basically written to allow martial characters to keep up with casters. Its been criticized as "Dragonball Z for D&D" but not all the maneuvers are that flashy (mainly that's Desert Wind and Shadow Hand) and apparently it was a test bed for 4e concepts of everyone having powers.

How would maneuvers that allow mutliple attacks, including

(tob1a): Desert Tempest (move attack any adjacent foe during move once), Fire Riposte (gain immediate counterattack), Flashing Sun (gain one extra attack with -2 penalty to all attacks)

(tob3a): Avalanche of Blades (make subsequent attacks at -4 to hit cumulative until you miss), Stance of Alactrity (gain one free counter a round as an Immediate Action), Time Stands Still (make two full attacks in a round)

And so on. And are there any others that you would see needing modification?
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Re: The Martial Pool and the Book of Nine Swords

Postby Querente » Fri Jul 24, 2009 9:07 am

Galloglaich wrote:I read through some of those just now, and I really have no idea how the Codex could relate to that, I just have no point of reference for that kind of game play. It reads like World of Warcraft to me.

Do you have any ideas how it could be integrated? Maybe I missed something.

G.


The Bo9S allows a martial character to do special strikes ,boosts and counters. And has stances for small ongoing effects.

Strikes are special attacks with additional damage or effects, but they are standard or full round actions, so you sacrifice your iterative attacks to use them.

Boosts are mostly swift actions that gives a modifier or effect to your actions for that round.

Counters are response-actions. Some are allowed when you make a save others when responding to an attack. Each counter has its own trigger event.

>>Difference between the Codex and Bo9S implementations<<

Counters are an integral part of active defense in the Codex and can be tried any round if you wish. In Bo9S counters and the like are used once until they regained in a class-related way. In short, they can't be done round-by-round. Codex counter are basic rolls, counters in b09s either succeeds or give a better roll then you normally would have (replace your will save with a concentration roll for example).

Boosts can give any or all effects, like extended reach, extra damage, extra attack, speed boost. You sacrifice normally a move or swift action for it. Such boosts in Codex are normally done by using martial feats and adding extra an extra dice from your martial pool.

Boost (offense) - Counter (active defense) balance: since you can use only one swift or immediate action per round, it kinda follows the principle of the martial pool. In other words, where do you want to allocate your martial resource dice or actions to.

Strikes are special attacks, adding damage and effects. The Codex uses martial feats and dice allocation for this. Strikes can be a lot more powerful then martial feats, but strikes can only be used once until they are regained. Each class has only a limited number of maneuvers (boosts, strikes, counters). Strikes include supernatural attacks especially in certain schools like Desert Wind (fire-based arcane martial arts) or Shadow Hand (shadow and darkness supernatural combat)

Stances are ongoing effects, much like spells. They are mostly combat modifiers like defense fighting is. Some offer penalties to enemy, or heal some hitpoints per round, or give you bonuses. Some give stronger effects like allowing two counters per round or disallowing 5-ft steps within your threat-range.

How to combine the Codex and Bo9S.
No idea, but I guess you might give 2 dice to initiate a strike and 1 dice for counters (active defense) or boost. A full round strike will cost 3 dice. You have to put some limits on it, like only one strike per round and such. And you are disallowed to use martial feats from the codex in conjuction with performing a martial strike.
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Re: The Martial Pool and the Book of Nine Swords

Postby Gavinfoxx » Fri Sep 24, 2010 2:49 pm

Hello, I just wanted to say that I really liked this thread, and I like the idea of running an E6/CM/ToB game with Warblade replacing (or augmenting) Fighter, at the very least

It'd be sort of some house-rules monstrosity, of course, but this looks like a good way to start.

It'd also be good for a "Everyone are melee characters with no magic" sort of gritty game, I'd think. Judging by this thread, it seems like it should be fairly easy to differentiate the characters, mechanically?
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Re: The Martial Pool and the Book of Nine Swords

Postby Galloglaich » Fri Sep 24, 2010 9:55 pm

Can somebody explain to me the link between tome of battle and the book of nine swords and why was I thnking of 'game of thrones' for some reason?

G.
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Re: The Martial Pool and the Book of Nine Swords

Postby Gavinfoxx » Fri Sep 24, 2010 10:56 pm

The full title of the D&D 3.5e book is, "Tome of Battle: The Book of Nine Swords"

"Game of Thrones" has something to do with that Song of Ice and Fire series, the board game based on that series, the ccg based on the series, the rpg based on the series, or the tv show based on the series?

So... I don't know where you got mixed up!
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Re: The Martial Pool and the Book of Nine Swords

Postby Galloglaich » Sat Sep 25, 2010 1:12 am

Mainly because I'm stupid :P

They made a TV show? I thought I'd heard of every fantasy / Sci Fi TV show....

G.
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Re: The Martial Pool and the Book of Nine Swords

Postby Gavinfoxx » Sat Sep 25, 2010 3:36 am

They "are making" the TV series. It isn't out yet!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_of_Thrones_(TV_series)

Gallogiach, you are the main author of the Codex Martialis, right?

You know what, I would totally BUY you a copy of ToB off of Ebay or whatever, and pay you a fee to go over it thoroughly, and figure out a way to combine the rules, classes, powers, ideas, and as much like stuff as possible with your next version of Codex Martialis.

Yes, I know ToB isn't SRD/OGL, but it's really a great subsystem... and I'm fairly sure a good number of the powers actually would, with a little bit of modification, work decently well for real life martial arts. You would just need to group them in different ways than ToB did, I guess..

Same goes for Pathfinder. And Trailblazer, for that matter...
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Re: The Martial Pool and the Book of Nine Swords

Postby Galloglaich » Fri Oct 01, 2010 1:45 pm

Gavinfoxx wrote:They "are making" the TV series. It isn't out yet!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_of_Thrones_(TV_series)


I just saw a commercial for this on HBO, it looks like it might be good.

Gallogiach, you are the main author of the Codex Martialis, right?


Yes, I'm afraid to admit it in public sometimes, but yes I am.

You know what, I would totally BUY you a copy of ToB off of Ebay or whatever, and pay you a fee to go over it thoroughly, and figure out a way to combine the rules, classes, powers, ideas, and as much like stuff as possible with your next version of Codex Martialis.


Sadly, I do not have the time for such an endeavor at this point. There are a near infinity of cool games out there that I'd love to even try out let alone seriously evaluate, but I have a limited window for game related activities sadly. What little time I do have is currently devoted to the Codex: I'm still working in finishing the Codex armor book (WOTAW II) and the last finishing touches on the core rules and WOTAW I... as well as my main RPG related task lately which is to finish the Beta of my Codex Baltic campaign in time to start running it later this month.

But I'll make you a counter-offer.

If you want to try to make a ToB version of Codex, I'll grant you permission to use the Codex rules in their entirety and I'll help you by answering questions in detail on this forum. I would suspect however there would be one major stumbling block, namely the copyright / license status of Tome of Battle. If by some miracle Wizards of the Coast gave you permission to use that material I would be willing to give you permission to make a Codex adaptation of it, with the caveat that I'd get an editorial veto on the content, and you could publish and you could sell it and keep all the money it makes.

That really goes for any other game system which can be legally fiddled with in such a way. The reason Codex is based on the SRD instead of some more specialized sub-variant of DnD is that the SRD is of course under the Open Gaming License so you are legally allowed to use it and modify it as you see fit. But the Codex thrives on user involvement and I'd love to see user created variant plug-ins for other systems, as well as adaptations to Historical or Fantasy settings which might be easier to do legally. I'd be glad to license these and let people sell them, because it would mean more exposure and presumably more sales for the Codex. And anyway I did this mostly to spread the idea rather than to make money.

Failing that, we can always discuss integrating the two systems in detail in here, I don't know ToB but I'll be glad to chime in with my $.02 in an in-depth forum discussion.

Yes, I know ToB isn't SRD/OGL, but it's really a great subsystem... and I'm fairly sure a good number of the powers actually would, with a little bit of modification, work decently well for real life martial arts. You would just need to group them in different ways than ToB did, I guess..

Same goes for Pathfinder. And Trailblazer, for that matter...


Feel free to get started on integrating any of the above in our forum or on your own... that is what I created these subforums for...

G.
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