KingAlbert wrote:Well I'm not sure what it is you changed in the formula, but if you look at

http://tinyurl.com/aejqmy I entered in your example and Bob does 11% more damage.

All I changed was giving Carol a second (1 die) attack, which her MF effectively gives her. Actually she will also cause more damage simply by making two attacks plus two Active Defenses, even without the feat.

How do you get the figure that Carols average damage for her extra attack is only 0.32?

I calculate her chance of getting a (bypass) hit as 50%, she needs an 18 (Bobs Passive Defense of 12+6 for bypassing a Mail Hauberk), her average die roll is 18 (actually 18.5 10.5 +4 Bab +3 Weapon Speed +1 Weapon Focus) average damage is 4 so she should be causing an average of 2 extra points of Damage.which would put her at 6.93 (higher than your figure for Bobs at 6.16 ) this does not include Carols enhanced potential for a critical which I believe from your figures is another 0.09 which would put her at 7.02, not even including if she gets a 3 die roll on her counterstroke which I'm too tired to figure out how add into this.

So I'm showing Carol 13% ahead.With regards to shields what will happen is that as the Probability of hitting goes lower the damage ratio approaches 1:1.

But with the shield, the probability of hitting only really goes lower if you are using Active Defense (because that is the only way you get the benefit of the Free Dice) So Bobs probability of hitting will drop more precipitously than Carols.

It's pretty clear that Carol has a significant (not just an incremental) advantage with a shield and the second Active Defense die that comes with it. I played out 5 combats where both of them were armed with sword and buckler and she won 4 times. You tell me if I'm missing something mate.

I would also like to hear how you are computing Bobs odds of a bypass hit against a two-die Active defense (i.e. from the Shield) in your example? Her Active Defense bonus is + 14 (4 Bab +3 Weapon Defense +1 Dodge +6 bypass). Each of her die rolls is 7 points (35% higher) than his, and on top of that she gets the highest of two die rolls (which the computer shows will be 20% higher than his die roll). His average damage would drop significantly with two extra Active Defense die rolls.

Spears, hermm, well it might be interesting to see if the numbers favor a 2-die attack on the opening shot due to the Range Bonus. But I'd have to work that out.

Ah you see, that’s where the tactics start coming in

. If he makes a 2 die opening attack, she’s likely to make a higher initial Active Defense. Or try a feint or some other tactic

But lets sort out swords by themselves, then swords and shields, and then we can move on to spears, staves, other feats and etc.

G,