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Steal Initiative Feat

PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2010 7:57 am
by Daeruin
I want to make sure I understand this feat. For quick reference here is the description:

Codex Martialis wrote:Steal Initiative
Take the momentum in a fight. Prerequisites: Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Dexterity 13+ Benefits: At the beginning of the round, on your initiative, designate a Dodge target. If you generate a counterattack against this opponent, or you enter a Bind (tie roll) or they fumble (they roll a natural 1) you may immediately swap initiative values with your attacker. All subsequent attacks by this enemy in this round and hereafter take place at your former initiative turn. So if they rolled a 16 and you rolled a 6, you are now considered to have rolled a 16 initiative and they a 6. Can be used in conjunction with Counterstroke or Meisterhau Counterstroke, but it is only triggered by a ‘natural’ counterattack (i.e. generated by your 20 or their 1 die-roll).

First, it says "At the beginning of the round, on your initiative, designate a Dodge target." So which is it? Beginning of the round, or on your initiative? It has to be at the beginning of the round, right?

Now let's take the example in the description. My opponent has a 16 initiative, and I have a 6. On a new round, initiative 16 comes around, and my opponent attacks me. I roll an active defense and score a counterattack. We immediately swap initiative. So my initiative is suddenly 16. Since we are currently on initiative 16 RIGHT NOW, do I get to attack immediately? Do I roll my counterattack before switching initiatives? Whatever the answer to those questions are, when initiative 16 is over, we continue on with the round and eventually reach initiative 6. Now my opponent gets to attack me....for the second time this round. If I did get to attack him earlier this round, he may not have MP dice left, or he may be dead, so I guess that's OK. But if he does have MP dice left somehow, then I'm not sure what I gained. I need to get this clarified somehow.

Re: Steal Initiative Feat

PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2010 4:03 pm
by Galloglaich
You declare the dodge target when you always declare a dodge target, i.e. when you are first allowed to take an action, on your first initiative. This will also be on the first round. According to the SRD for Dodge:


During your action, you designate an opponent and receive a +1 dodge bonus to Armor Class against attacks from that opponent. You can select a new opponent on any action.

A condition that makes you lose your Dexterity bonus to Armor Class (if any) also makes you lose dodge bonuses. Also, dodge bonuses stack with each other, unlike most other types of bonuses.

So in your example you couldn't declare the Dodge target the first time you were attacked, assuming your opponent was able to get to you in the first round. But it would still be on the first round, just when your initiative came around.

So you would declare your dodge target, move, change range, or attack your opponent with whatever MP you had left, and then the 2nd round would start. You would still be at 6 and he would still be at 16.

When he next attacks you however, and you generated a counterattack, you would counterattack immediately (if you had MP remaining) as is always the case, and finish your round normally. The initiative 'switch' would take place on the third round. "It should probably say effective the next round".

It's really pretty simple but it should be worded a bit more clearly.


Re: Steal Initiative Feat

PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2010 4:26 pm
by Daeruin
OK, I see now. I've never actually played a fighter using OGL-type rules, only watched others. I didn't remember how Dodge works off the top of my head, and I should have looked it up. You're right, it's quite simple. So the round proceeds as normal until next round. I finish my counterattack, he finishes his actions if he has MP left, then I get my turn at initiative 6—then a new round starts, the initiatives switch, and I get to attack on initiative 16, essentially letting me act twice in a row. Nice.

Adding that one line would clear things up a lot. Thanks for the clarification.