Dressage

The place to discuss the new Martial Feats.

Re: Dressage

Postby Galloglaich » Tue Dec 04, 2012 8:33 pm

I'm going to put them in in the next update, along with some weapon changes and some other feats. Maybe tonight.

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Re: Dressage

Postby drkguy3107 » Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:15 pm

Ya, I still need help working on my mounted combat system, as I find that it doesn't quite play correctely. Main problem is mounted vs. non-mounted combatants. You see, if I have them take turns as normal, it seems weird as then it appears that the cavalry is just parked, when in reality they are moving. For example, if player A (mounted) decides to ride by player B (also mounted) and slash him, and player B decides to block and then chase after player A and attack him, I just can't let A do everything he wants on his turn and then have player B run and catch up. It gives the illusion that the horses stop and sit until their next turn.
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Re: Dressage

Postby Daeruin » Sat Dec 08, 2012 5:57 pm

That's always been one of the disadvantages of the turn-based system and is one of the biggest reasons AoOs were invented, I believe—to represent the fact that a combatant doesn't swing his sword and then sit there frozen while everyone else does stuff; he can still attack you if you do something dumb right in front of his face. Maybe there's some analogous mechanism you can implement for mounted combat. Like allowing a mounted combatant to take an extra action if someone tries to catch him... maybe give him a Ride check or a Reflex save to avoid the attack and/or make an extra move to show that he's able to get away despite being "frozen" while the others act. Or maybe allow the rider to take a certain percentage of its move anytime someone else moves. Maybe allow a certain number of short immediate move actions to a mounted combatant. Something along those lines.
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Re: Dressage

Postby drkguy3107 » Sat Dec 08, 2012 11:45 pm

Like moves of opportunity?
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Re: Dressage

Postby Daeruin » Sun Dec 09, 2012 2:34 am

Exactly!

Or it could be a feat...

Mounted Mobility
Prerequisites: Ride 1 rank, (more?)
"Once per turn, if you moved in a straight line last turn while mounted and another creature comes within 5 feet, you can immediately move your mount's speed continuing in a straight line."

Something like that.
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Re: Dressage

Postby Galloglaich » Sun Dec 09, 2012 4:20 am

I thought that is what te dressage feat was for, kinda?

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Re: Dressage

Postby drkguy3107 » Mon Dec 10, 2012 11:16 pm

Ya, that is exactly what dressage is for. You simply need another die to use.

My problem was how to react in-time with another horseman. Let's say I am chasing after galloglaich on horse back. Last turn I rode up and struck him with a lance, from behind, and ended my turn on his 5 o'clock. Next turn, what I would want to do, is turn around and follow him, preventing him from getting away, staying on his 6. If he slows down then obviously I would want to hit him with my lance again. The point is I don't want him to get away, and I will work against that.

However it won't work. If he has initiative, he will simply say, I pull away, then turn around (this is the part where I would try and hit him) and charge at me, meanwhile I am a sitting duck until my initative. So you see how the combat gets broken? If I have dressage, I can try and avoid the incoming blow by moving away, but that's not the same, I wanted to follow him and prevent him from turning. And the problem is not merely linked to initiative, as even if I had it, I would simply choose to wait for him, since my above said goal is to follow him.

You see my problem?

I fixed this by having all mounted opponents declare what they where doing before they did it, and have then all kinda respond tit for tat with their actions, rather than just having a whole turn, but this get's confused with too many fighters, or with infantry.

Note: Also, what about advanced dressage.
Preq: dressage, 12 ride
Once per turn you get a BONUS die for moving away from closing opponenets.
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Re: Dressage

Postby Galloglaich » Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:30 am

Well maybe we need some mechanic (or martial feats) which work kind of like AoO, but allow you to react to movements other horsemen do around you, within a certain range. Maybe a series of offensive and defensive movement feats.

My thought would be, you hold some dice in reserve to react on the other peoples turns. So if someone starts pulling away, you can react (and say, pursue, or try to cut them off, or do something else) or if someone chases you can evade or pull away.

I think your horse, can also react somewhat, especially if trained. Maybe a trained horse can have a couple of dice to pursue or evade on it's own, that might be a real nice feature of a fancy warhorse.

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Re: Dressage

Postby Daeruin » Tue Dec 11, 2012 7:54 pm

So we're still looking at something like Movement of Opportunity. Honestly, this would be nice for movement on foot in a lot of cases, too. The problems are move obvious with mounted combat, but they're basically the same.

I think AoOs are also meant as a sort of patch to this problem as well. In combat on foot, it really doesn't make sense to turn your back on your opponent to run away when he still has a sword drawn. It doesn't quite work the same way with moving horses though, where you have momentum to consider. In your example, you should have gotten at AoO against the guy before he pulls away, right? Or does that not seem realistic? You'd have to have MP left to do it in any case.

This is a symptom of a larger problem I've had ever since I started playing d20 games. In most RPGs, the problem is actually minimized by only allowing one action per round. But when you allow more than one action per round, each turn gets chunkier as more happens while all the other characters have frozen statue syndrome until their next turn. AoOs are meant to fix some of the problems, but in my opinion they make things feel even less realistic in many respects. Codex Martialis fixes some of this problem, at least for standard melee combat, by using the Martial Pool, allowing counterattacks, allowing active defense, etc. Creating some mechanism for out-of-turn movement would take it a step further.

Something just occurred to me. Would the use of Ready actions help you at all? In your example, if it was your initiative, you don't have to just sit there and do nothing until your next turn. Instead, you would just "ready" an action to follow the guy. As soon as he pulls away, you get to follow.
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Re: Dressage

Postby Galloglaich » Tue Dec 11, 2012 8:01 pm

Yes, something like that, though I think triggered by a Martial Feat. But you would hold some MP in reserve.

I don't think it would get too out of hand because you only have the 4 MP plus a couple extra for various feats and maybe your horse.

"Movement of Opportunity" sounds good to me ... ? What do you guys think?

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