Any ideas for some additional JSA MF's

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Any ideas for some additional JSA MF's

Postby drkguy3107 » Wed Jul 13, 2011 9:45 pm

I saw that some older threads were started on this, but I am working on a japanese game and it seems like many abilitites (half-sword, ringen am schwert, etc) aren't possible with japanese blades, and I was wondering what different MF's might be added to make up for this.
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Re: Any ideas for some additional JSA MF's

Postby drkguy3107 » Wed Jul 13, 2011 10:07 pm

this video looks very good, perhaps you and me could make some MF's based on this video.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4vbca ... ie1_travel
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Re: Any ideas for some additional JSA MF's

Postby Galloglaich » Thu Jul 14, 2011 3:39 pm

Ringen -am-schwert is done in Japanese fencing as part of Jujitsu, almost identically to many of the German moves. If I had some time I could find you some old drawings and water colors. Musashi talks about some of these techniques, mostly they have to do with using the sword for leverage in grappling (painful, slicing leverage)

I'm not sure about half-swording, they do something similar but don't grab the whole blade, just put their hand behind the spine. You could half-sword even with a Katana, I'm just not sure I've ever seen it done or mentioned in any period sources or artwork. I have seen it done with sabers, and I've seen that hand on the spine block depicted with katanas.

Most of the guards and master-cuts etc. that you see in that video are either identical or only slighly different in German fencing of the Liechtenauer tradition. The only major differences are that due to the lack of the cross on a Katana you don't do as many of the aggressive single-time counters (like the zwerchau), putting more emphasis on voiding instead (nachriesen) and due to the single edge they turn the sword when cutting from side to side, rather than using the false edge. That is the reason for the little twirly move you see them doing a couple of times right before striking. There is also a strong emphasis on cutting from a sheathed weapon, the Nukitsuki.

The problem I've had with developing any further Japanese MF is that all of the experts I've been able to contact through Martial Arts community either do Iaido or Kendo or Jujitsu, all of which are kind of separated out from the older complete system. So Iaido only emphasizes a bunch of moves from a sheathed sword, like the sequence in the very beginning of your video, and they don't spar; Kendo concentrates on fighting in a strait line and hitting certain targets (you are only allowed to hit the breast-plate etc.) and they don't allow grappling; Jujitsu doesn't involve weapons any more and has de-emphasized a lot of the lethal joint / back breaking moves in favor of techniques more suitible for sports like MMA.

Other than that it's almost identiical to Ringen, we have a guy in our fencing group who did Japanese Jujitsu for ten years and he was astounded by the similarities between techniques shown in 15th Century Fiore and Talhoffer Manuscripts with what he had trained on. Sadly most of the teeth have been taken out of Japanaese MA. This is largely because of reforms during the Meiji administration and by the Americans after WW II, in both cases with the specific intent of undermining Samurai culture. They turned the MA into sports... cool sports, but sports.

There are some people now starting to reconstruct the old arts, partly based on some surviving Korean manuals and Musashi's book and some other manuscripts, but I haven't been able to contact anyone who is part of this scene yet. I can't make up MF based on just looking at a video, you could do that as well as I could.

If you run across anyone with a real Martial Arts background knowledgable in pre-Meiji Japanese fencing who would like to contribute, please let me know. That is how I got the Filippino stuff.

G.
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Re: Any ideas for some additional JSA MF's

Postby Galloglaich » Thu Jul 14, 2011 3:54 pm

Basically I think all you really need to adapt Codex to Japanese system is to find Japanese names to replace all the German and Italian ones. If you have any luck with that let me know I'd like to include it in the book.

G.
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Re: Any ideas for some additional JSA MF's

Postby drkguy3107 » Thu Jul 14, 2011 5:59 pm

Well that video has a second part on the suggested videos, and it shows the half swording, what is weird about it is that they slide the sword along the hand, kinda like a pool stick. I don't see advanced half-swording working, due to the lack of a mordhau, but I didn't know that they had ringen am schwert. Also, I think the half-swording mf would have to be changed in some way, and perhaps the contra-mezo tempo mfs as well would have to be changed.
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Re: Any ideas for some additional JSA MF's

Postby Galloglaich » Mon Jul 18, 2011 1:27 pm

Why contra - mezo tempo?

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Re: Any ideas for some additional JSA MF's

Postby drkguy3107 » Mon Jul 18, 2011 7:16 pm

Never mind, mixed that up with point control.
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Re: Any ideas for some additional JSA MF's

Postby Galloglaich » Tue Jul 19, 2011 1:21 am

Point control would still work with Yari etc. And I think for most swords too, Tachi and Katana were used to thrust as well after all.

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Re: Any ideas for some additional JSA MF's

Postby drkguy3107 » Tue Jul 19, 2011 4:22 pm

Doesn't point control require a primary P? and neither katana or tachi are.
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Re: Any ideas for some additional JSA MF's

Postby Galloglaich » Wed Jul 20, 2011 2:36 pm

Yeah that is true...

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