New Feat: Schnappen

The place to discuss the new Martial Feats.

Re: New Feat: Schnappen

Postby drkguy3107 » Sat Dec 01, 2012 1:03 am

If two dice tie, then the defender wins ties, and a bind results. If you start to say that any hit in which the natural dice tie no longer count, I really think that would break down the game, as then you have to decide who chooses which die to use, and gives you the possibility to block an attack through dice selection, rather than through smart combat/combat ability.

Perhaps a whole new approach to binds should be worked out, as they are rare enough to make the mf's pointless, neither me nor my players have ever used them more than once.
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Re: New Feat: Schnappen

Postby Galloglaich » Sat Dec 01, 2012 5:10 am

Why is that any worse (or different) than a natural 20 or a natural 1?

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Re: New Feat: Schnappen

Postby drkguy3107 » Sat Dec 01, 2012 6:19 pm

Hmmm, how about you make up 2 characters have then fight for real, using these rules, and run a few simulations, type them up and then we can get a better idea about it's problems. I don't think I understand the possible ramifications enough.
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Re: New Feat: Schnappen

Postby Galloglaich » Sat Dec 01, 2012 8:17 pm

We have done it, this is the rule I used, which like I said, only two guys remembered to use the binds but they made good use of it.

I've been meaning to play out and record some combats though I just haven't had time, and haven't played in almost a year now. It's been too long! I'll ask some of my buddies at fencing practice if they might be up for it tonight maybe.

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Re: New Feat: Schnappen

Postby Galloglaich » Sat Dec 01, 2012 8:23 pm

One other thing about the Bind is you won't get one (as the defender) if you void.

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Re: New Feat: Schnappen

Postby Daeruin » Sun Dec 02, 2012 11:16 pm

I'm not well versed in statistics and probability, so I was surprised that you have an equal chance of rolling any given number on one die as you do of rolling doubles of any given number on two dice. In other words, when rolling one die, your chance of rolling any given number is 5%. Rolling two dice, your chance of rolling doubles of any given number is still 5%.

So in Codex, your chance of getting a fumble is 5% and your chance of getting a crit is 5%. Rolling two dice (attacker rolling for his attack and defender rolling active defense), the chance of getting a bind (doubles) is also 5%. So really, crits, fumbles and binds ought to be occurring with equal frequency, as long as you're using active defense for each attack.

It sounds like a lot of this might be fixed by people just remembering to use the rule. I think that could be helped by using my suggestion above—require an initial feat that allows you to even make use of binds, so those who get the feat will be motivated to make that part of their overall fighting strategy and will be more likely to remember it.
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Re: New Feat: Schnappen

Postby Daeruin » Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:50 am

Today I was noticing that Bind and Batter triggers when your opponent actively defends and blocks your attack. Is there any reason why it doesn't trigger from a bind?
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Re: New Feat: Schnappen

Postby Galloglaich » Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:53 pm

Let me check that out and get back to you.

To respond to your other comment, when you roll one 20 sided die each, I gather the odds are as you stated, i.e. 5% on each die for a fumble or a critical, and also 5% for the two die rolls to tie. I got this just from googling it and reading some forums on probablity.

But it gets skewed in the Codex due to the Free Dice. When you roll 2 dice and take the higher number the likelihood of a natural 20 goes up, I don't remember precisely how much but I think it goes to like 12% or something. When it's 3 dice it goes up a lot more, to over 20%.

(Edit: I just checked the probablity page on here but the screenshots that were on it are gone, I guess my old myspace account was finally deleted. I'll see if I can find the programs I wrote to test the numbers and if I can, I'll re-run them and upload the images here. )

But if memory serves while binds remain at 5%, fumbles drop to like 1 in 400 for two best of dice and then go down from there.

In a real fight binds are very common but binds that actually get effectively exploited remain somewhat rare. So I think the balance may be about right. However, in my group we mostly fight with nylon simulators which are kind of bouncy; it's the same with rataan sticks like you use in Eskrima.

With steel feders the rate of binds goes up; with really skilled fencers using steel it also goes way up, to where almost every parry is at least a partially exploited bind.

I really don't know what it's like with sharps.

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Re: New Feat: Schnappen

Postby Galloglaich » Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:56 pm

Ok I found the program I used to generate the random numbers for testing. Had to go back two laptops here at work. Kind of wierd booting up a computer you used to use every day five years ago. It's kind of like time travel, in a slightly uncomfortable way.

But I was having some fun playing with the program. I added a column for binds to count the binds too.

Anyway I'll take some screenshots from this thing tomorrow and upload them here.

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Re: New Feat: Schnappen

Postby Galloglaich » Thu Jan 10, 2013 5:39 pm

So getting back to the Bind thing, I'm going to clarify that a bind happens any time you get a tie roll on your natural die roll

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