Naginata

The place to discuss the weapon stats provided in Codex Martialis.

Re: Naginata

Postby drkguy3107 » Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:32 pm

Yes, I am sure that they never used barding (given that I cannot read japanese, but I have never seen any, and have repeatedly heard that they never did.) Also remember how little the the japanese native horses were. If you read any of Friday's books, he goes into this quite well. I don't believe that a japanese horse could actually carry much barding, but in reality they probably didn't use it because no one else had it in japan. Same reason the japanese NEVER used shields. The only shield they ever used were pavise type things. So remember that Japan is japan, and is quite separate from the rest of the world, and asia, in terms of weaponry. No shields, barding, one handed swords, or mail (japanese mail being quite different).

Except for a shaffron, your not going to find any barding, and since early armor used no leg, foot, knee, or dedicated thigh armor (they had large tassets to guard their body in the early years, but no haidate to protect their thighs specifically. So a long slashing weapon would do very well against cavalry. Also you probably noticed that the naginata was also used from horse back.
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Re: Naginata

Postby drkguy3107 » Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:54 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iy3eK1d0ibk

This is a good video for samurai armor of the muromachi period, which is 14th-15th century if I recall. So earlier than sengoku jidai, but still more modern than the naginata hey day.


If you look at the second armor on the site, you will see what I am talking about.
http://www.blackhydraarmouries.com/Dou/Dou.htm

If you have any japanese questions feel free to ask me. I am not an expert on these matters, but I probably know quite a bit more than you.

For a good book on this stuff (that leaves out much of the bs) I suggest you read one of Friday's books

http://www.amazon.com/Samurai-Warfare-S ... arl+friday
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Re: Naginata

Postby drkguy3107 » Thu Nov 29, 2012 4:52 pm

Note: Friday's is a scholarly text about the relation between warfare and the state, but he does discuss battles and weaponry some.

Also, I was wondering if you think the 1-10 damage for a naginata is fair? Since a glaive does a lot more damage, and they are the same weapon really. I think a naginata should have a lot more punch, at least as much as a sword. However then their may be a balance issue because a naginata is better than a japanese sword in every way, speed (after poleaxe fighting), reach, defense, damage, grapple.
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Re: Naginata

Postby Galloglaich » Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:32 pm

As a general rule, Polearms ARE generally better than swords in all but two important areas: speed close-in (where I think the katana still beats the najinata even with polleaxe fighting feats) and not having a haft; I don't know if you follow these particular rules but in the codex (as in real life) it's fairly easy to grab a hafted weapon and grapple with it.

I've seen some real glaive blades, (posted some photos of some recently here somewhere from the Higgins armoury a few months ago) and they are HUGE, really formidable, the blades alone probably have more mass than any sword, except maybe a big falchion. Whereas say, a Halberd has a much smaller blade (some are pretty big, some real small especially the later-era ones like from the 17th Century), some of the spetums and so forth seemed almost delicate, and a najinata's blade seemed even smaller, thinner bladed to me though I've only seen replicas. But maybe it should be bumped up to d12.

They had some really nice Japanese stuff at the Higgins by the way, some arrowheads and a gun in particular were remarkable to me for their quality, compared to the Islamic and European stuff which was in the same area.

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Re: Naginata

Postby drkguy3107 » Fri Nov 30, 2012 5:36 am

Could you post the glaive blades.
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Re: Naginata

Postby Galloglaich » Fri Nov 30, 2012 4:04 pm

Image
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Re: Naginata

Postby Galloglaich » Fri Nov 30, 2012 4:06 pm

You can't really tell the scale from the photo but I'd guess those blades were all about 3' feet long, 5" or 6" wide at the widest point. Scary.

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Re: Naginata

Postby drkguy3107 » Sat Dec 01, 2012 1:07 am

And naginata blades are closer to 1, or 1.5 feet right? That is a very heavy blade to be on the end of a pole. I don't hear much about them.
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Re: Naginata

Postby Galloglaich » Sat Dec 01, 2012 4:43 am

As for the naginata, I don't know you tell me, you are the expert ;)


Regarding the glaives, they are real big, but that doesn't necessarily mean super heavy. We expected the falchions to be really heavy based on their width and size but they turned out to be quite thin and not to weigh much more than a typical sword. Sometimes less.

Just looking at those glaives though they did look pretty heavy to me. I don't know, didn't get a chance to handle them. Maybe next year when we go back.

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Re: Naginata

Postby drkguy3107 » Sat Dec 01, 2012 6:28 pm

Lol, I am not an expert on Japanese matters, but what I do know has to do with armor and general trends in warfare, rather than with specific weapon lengths.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Samur ... mor%29.jpg
It appears to me that the naginata has about a foot and a half-length blade.


On a side note, I don't believe a glave should have any grapple bonus, judging by those images.

I will change my naginata to do d12 damage.
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