Pacific weapons

The place to discuss the weapon stats provided in Codex Martialis.

Pacific weapons

Postby Ahton » Thu Jul 05, 2012 6:56 am

Drkguy here,

was watching a history channel show about hawaiian warriors and wanted to stat some of them out. The show can be found here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1n1hEs9 ... re=related
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Re: Pacific weapons

Postby Galloglaich » Thu Jul 05, 2012 1:38 pm

I have some of the Polynesian weapons, the Taiaha and the Maori war-club for example. But from the preview of the vid it looks like there are some things I haven't seen before, I'll check it out....

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Re: Pacific weapons

Postby drkguy3107 » Thu Jul 05, 2012 3:18 pm

Mostly I wanted to add the shark teeth weapons and the ranged club. It reminds me of the meteor hammer and would be a fun weapon to stat in the codex. Also I am working on a fragile system, for obsidian or teeth weapons which can be routinly broken, rendering the weapon a club.
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Re: Pacific weapons

Postby Galloglaich » Thu Jul 05, 2012 3:59 pm

I do have something for the shark teeth club, I think it's called the 'protosword', which was originally based on the Aztec macihuitil which is basically the same thing except with obsidian blades built into it. In fact I think some macuihuitil did use sharks teeth.

The meteor hammer is one I probably need to add under exotic weapons.

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Re: Pacific weapons

Postby drkguy3107 » Thu Jul 05, 2012 9:10 pm

Is there anyway to attack a document to the forum, I don't know how to imbed all that well.
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Re: Pacific weapons

Postby Galloglaich » Fri Jul 06, 2012 12:23 pm

Some of the specific sub-forums allow you to attach a document or a photo directly to your post. but I don't remember which ones off-hand... I think 'The Abbey pub'?

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Re: Pacific weapons

Postby drkguy3107 » Fri Aug 03, 2012 7:00 pm

Part of the change in weapons is that I always felt that your proto-sword's damage was way too low. Also I feel that stone or teeth weapons should remove any ap bonus they would normally have, including for arrows.
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Re: Pacific weapons

Postby Galloglaich » Sat Aug 04, 2012 4:08 pm

This category of weapons covers a wide range, wider than I covered obviously in the Codex. I was mainly basing my analysis on the battlefield account of one of the soldiers of Cortez, Bernal Diaz, and on some modern tests. As effective as a protosword with a shark-tooth or obsidian edge can be in a slice against soft tissue, the shape isn't efficient enough to say, easily hack somebodies arm off. The main factor is that Cortez very small (originally 500 men) army survived multiple hand to hand engagements with Indian warriors equipped with weapons of this type, and most of the Spanish soldiers had no more armor than a gambeson, a helmet, and a rotella.

Similarly I know that an iron or steel mace just does a lot more damage than a wooden club, I've tested this myself.

I admit however I could benefit by seeing more realistic tests particularly of the protoswords.

As for armor-piercing ability, you are probably right (and if I haven't already, this should be addressed in 'alternative materials' section) but there are some interesting anecdotes that I remember that claim Seminole Indians in Florida were able to shoot through Spanish armor with their stone-tipped arrows.

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Re: Pacific weapons

Postby drkguy3107 » Sun Aug 05, 2012 7:17 pm

According to one account a horses head was severed by one. To me that is a fantastic cut that I doubt a longsword could do. I'm not aware if you know this or not, but obsidian is much sharper than any steel weapon can be, so though the weapon may be more fragile it should cut much better. Personally I wouldn't be surprised if one could out cut almost all swords.

I can't find the test, but on deadliest warrior a macahuitl was more than capable of severing a horses head in 3 blows. Not to mention that when the weapon is pulled out of the cut it leaves a horrible sawing cut.

I think I have shown this before but the cut is definetly in the d10 category in my opinion. start on 3:41
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBa1G12K ... re=related
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Re: Pacific weapons

Postby drkguy3107 » Sun Aug 05, 2012 7:30 pm

I don't know what modern tests you are referring to, or what evidence you have that the shape in ineffective.

As for the survival of cortez's soldiers, I don't see what is wrong with the weapon. There are many incident in the middle ages where small numbers of soldiers could survive combat against men armed with swords, yet this does not prove that swords are bad weapons. I find that lind of evidence to be too weak, unless you have direct evidence in which the Spaniards say that the weapons are bad, and I have only heard good things spoken by the Spaniards about the weapons.

The club/mace example is not valid, a bludgeoning weapon will benefit from increased hardness, as that prevents the weapon from absorbing as much force and aids in the transferring of force. That is very different from how a cutting weapon functions. In my mind the aztec weapons (as I have said earlier) is superior in a few ways.

From wiki's article on obsidian:
"Obsidian has been used for blades in surgery, as well-crafted obsidian blades have a cutting edge many times sharper than high-quality steel surgical scalpels, the cutting edge of the blade being only about 3 nanometers thick.[34] Even the sharpest metal knife has a jagged, irregular blade when viewed under a strong enough microscope; when examined even under an electron microscope an obsidian blade is still smooth and even. One study found that obsidian incisions produced narrower scars, fewer inflammatory cells, and less granulation tissue in a group of rats.[35] Don Crabtree produced obsidian blades for surgery and other purposes,[34] and has written articles on the subject."

And in a weapon use, the high impact would help break off pieces of the blade and leave them in the wound, so the anti-inflammatory qualities (a minus in a weapon) wouldn't be present.

Edit: Just now found a good website, will begin reading
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